MCS Engine noise when cold

[caesar]

All very depressing news with " no light at the end of the tunnel".

[Tracie]

I've been following this thread for a while now and evan though I haven't got a MINI I'm very disappointed that there isn't a proper fix for this problem.

To be honest its putting me off buying a MCS as this was what I was hoping to be able to go for later in the year.
It looks very much like I will be going down the Golf or A3 route which have a Vag 1.4 Turbo petrol unit without rattles.

[brgc00perboy]

Hi all

With great disappointment I have to report that after a month of trouble free motoring since the entire timing assembly was changed and with things were looking genuinely promising regarding the longevity of the repair/parts, unfortunately the cold start noise has returned with vengeance during the past week.

Now what do i do next. If a replacement engine will not solve the problem then what is the alternative?

Paul

[MiniMarie]

Quote: Originally Posted by MJS (original)

tbh, I don't think this latest "fix" is a fix.

I think it is a set of replacement timing parts, just in case the original parts are faulty.

I couldn't agree more. Mine has rattled on cold start since november. I've had timing chain tenisioner changed, new hydraulic lifters, a new ECU and in february they replaced all the timing gear with apparently modified parts. By mid march the farmiliar rattle was back, not as loud as before and not happening as frequently but back nonetheless. In the past week it's gotten loud and rattled 3 mornings out of 5. I have to say, I'm gutted

[viden]

Today I had my car at the stealers to fix this. They told me that they were told by the factory that it was a shielding plate for the catalyzer that made the noise, and therefore tightened it (or something). And I must admit, the engine sounded like new when I started it. Can't wait for tomorrow morning tho...

[MJS]

Quote: Originally Posted by brgc00perboy (original)

Hi all

With great disappointment I have to report that after a month of trouble free motoring since the entire timing assembly was changed and with things were looking genuinely promising regarding the longevity of the repair/parts, unfortunately the cold start noise has returned with vengeance during the past week.

Now what do i do next. If a replacement engine will not solve the problem then what is the alternative?

Paul

Think that is what we all want to know Paul.

I am in the same situation, I asked my dealer " if I didn't want a replacement engine, what else could they do?"
The reply was along the lines of "not much". As they see it, they have tried to rectify the fault by replacing a full engine unit with another brand new one, which you would expect would rectify the problem.

As this problem seems to be worldwide and not specific to any build date, then I would expect this to be an internal design flaw of the engine, which by replacing with another engine of same design is not really achieving anything. The only thing it does is to buy them time while we all put another 5k on our "new" engines and the noise starts again...

I asked about the possibilities of rejection or trade in, but the answer I got was "it is up to you if you want to trade in, but you will have to pay the difference" was the style of answer I got...

hmmm, not exactly what I wanted to hear, but I don't know what else to do? I have been sold a "duff" as it has been back in about 11-12 times now. Tomorrow it is going in for the replacement engine and complete sunroof assembly.....

Really wish I hadn't traded my 52 plate S in now, oh how I miss that.....

[caesar]

Quote: Originally Posted by viden (original)

Today I had my car at the stealers to fix this. They told me that they were told by the factory that it was a shielding plate for the catalyzer that made the noise, and therefore tightened it (or something). And I must admit, the engine sounded like new when I started it. Can't wait for tomorrow morning tho...

Thats very interesting to hear as it would cause a rattling noise, but might not be related to the 'noise' we are discussing.

When was your MCS built and what distance has it done when you heard the rattle ??

[rogan200]

I wrote to miniUK regarding the noise as a concerned customer for the new JCW model. Of course thier response was somewhat predictable - pretty much denail of the issues existance:

MiniUK wrote:

"Dear Mr Thomson

Thank you for your email dated April 9, 2008 in which you highlight your concerns about an engine rattle you have discovered on the internet.

I would like to reassure you that, having consulted our own technical database, I can confidently assert that, despite the information you have discovered on the internet, there is no inherent fault which manifests itself in an engine rattle.

I appreciate that following your own research, there are a number of owners on the internet who disagree with this statement. Although the internet is a useful tool for research it is not necessarily the most accurate and forums in particular can create a misrepresentative impression of the full scale and severity of any potential problems. Working for MINI as a manufacturer, I have access to the most up-to-date information gathered from our dealership network. This information, which consists of part orders and failure reports, allows me to reassure you that this is not a common problem.

I would also be confident that, if there was such a problem, aside from a minority of especially complex cases, trained MINI technicians at your local approved dealership will be more than capable of resolving any technical issues with your MINI.

I am sorry that your concern has reached such a level that you have felt the need to contact us. I hope that this email has managed to provide you with the reassurances you were seeking. If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact me

Yours sincerely

MINI UK ..................."

[DerekH]

Rogan what a cop out they are having a laugh at our expence bmw will ruine there rep if they don't sort this out quick

[Tracie]

Would it be worth doing a petition to MINI, or failing that convoy up to Oxford and sit in the carpark until someone takes notice, I think a load of angry MINI owners on site may draw attention along with the local press for good measure

[MJS]

the next question must be;

has anybody had a replacement engine and the noise appeared again on the new unit?

and maybe another;
maybe we could set up a poll to find out build date and engine tractor noise? That way we might get some figures from the community and take it from there?

[tomasso]

@Rogan,

ha this sound familiar. Read the responds that I got from Mini UK. Besides the annoying, no reaction on my questions, the only difference between the UK and Dutch specifications I could find is the location of the steeringwheel : P

===========================================

Dear Mr Jansen

Thank you for contacting MINI Customer Information in the UK.

We are sorry to hear of you troubles with MINI in Holland. Excessive rattling is certainly not a common fault associated with any of our vehicle, however if you visit your local approved MINI specialist they should be able to investigate this further.

With your vehicle being built to Dutch specification, MINI UK is unable to comment on your particular situation. Dutch specification vehicles do differ to UK specification ones, so we cannot advise further in this instance.

Our best advice would be for you to visit your local MINI specialist again, and ask them to investigate the matter further.

We trust this is of use.

Yours sincerely

MINI UK

bla bla bla.........

[caesar]

BMW are obviously stalling, if they admit there is a problem it would have a drastic effect on their sales and a panic reaction from current MCS owners.

I would imagine BMW have contacted all their Dealers about this problem and briefed them to 'put up a smoke screen'. After all it is in the Dealers interest to do so.

We as a forum represent a small number of owners as a percentage of their total sales, but as so many of us have the 'noise' problem it must be serious.

The fact BMW have replaced parts and engines is a Public Relations exercise to show owners they care, and meanwhile giving their technical staff time to find what is the cause and how it can be fixed.

In the meantime we have to be patient, we can still use our cars and nobody has reported an engine cease functioning that we know of. Their logistics department have hopefully received feedback from their Dealer network and they have the full picture.

It is in our interest as owners not to broadcast the 'noise' problem as we would have difficulty selling our cars.

In case anybody thinks I am in anyway connected with BMW they are wrong !!!

[Tunster]

In total honestly, knowing there are thousands of R56 MCS owners out there, there's a very small pecentage having the problem here within the MINI2 community.

As much as it's concerning, I don't think people should be overreacting as much as they are. If it was such a serious problem, they would of done a major recall. What's the point sitting on a problem? For the consumer and potential new customers, it's bad for BMW not to respond to potential serious defects. This is if it is of course and I personally don't think it is.

I'm not saying we should be quiet about the issue, but, I think we've got to sit tight. Knowing of the issue before I bought my MCS, I wasn't going to be put off .

[msh441]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tunster (original)

In total honestly, knowing there are thousands of R56 MCS owners out there, there's a very small pecentage having the problem here within the MINI2 community.

There was a similar discussion about this on NAM. The real numbers broke down to about 400 registered R56S owners on NAM. Between 25 and 30 are reporting this issue vocally. That's about one out of every 13-16 cars sold and 6-7% is by no means a small percentage. Though not necessarily representative of the non-enthusiast MINI community... that's a disturbing figure even if the real number is half that. All kidding aside, MINI is very motivated and committed at getting to the bottom of this ASAP.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tunster (original)

As much as it's concerning, I don't think people should be overreacting as much as they are. If it was such a serious problem, they would of done a major recall. What's the point sitting on a problem? For the consumer and potential new customers, it's bad for BMW not to respond to potential serious defects. This is if it is of course and I personally don't think it is..

I think the act of buying back cars (3 or 4 here on MINI 2) or replacing engines (another 4 or 5 here) if they weren't acknowledging a problem. Add to that the number of owners here who have experienced the rattle but are either living with it or in the early stages of pursuing it with their dealer and I think you'll find higher percentages here effected as on NAM. Remember, MINI 2 ownershave had the car 4 -5 months longer than the generally US/NAM audience.

Right now it boils down to two things: Knowledge and money.

Does BMW really know what's causing the rattle and how to fix it? All clues point to "not yet".

Secondly, will they fork out the €€€ for a full on recall on ALL 2007 and 2008 cars once a fix is identified? Probably not. They will more likley attempt cheaper alternatives(chain tensioner pistons and the like). If those fail to fix the issue to the customers satisfaction, the finalized "fix" will be employed... but not until then.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tunster (original)

I'm not saying we should be quiet about the issue, but, I think we've got to sit tight. Knowing of the issue before I bought my MCS, I wasn't going to be put off .

I agree. I wouldn't be too put off, either. Despite my experience... the car has been a pleasure to drive over the past year. I love, Love, LOVE it!!! It's the most fun you can have on 4-wheels IMO. My MINI dealership has been very helpful in making this process as painless as possible. I have been compensated enough that I'm willing to wait and see how things will turn out.

Bottom line, though: If it pops up in the new engine... and the REAL fix/recall isn't availible at that time... I won't be driving a MINI after that.