MCS Engine noise when cold

[CBCooper]

I had the chain tensioner piston replaced and it did not rectify the noise. My dealer swopped components from my car to another MCS to see if they could replicate the noise on that car without any success, they then ordered some new tappets and were going to replace all of them to see if that fixed it, i believe this is quite a big task, camshafts out? basically it was another shot in the dark and that was'nt good enough.
I rejected my car last week and after several offers of a new replacement i decided to opt for a refund. I had to contribute to the mileage but the offer was good and i can finally put this experience behind me. I guess i will never know what was wrong with my car, which is a shame as its been 5 months of mysery and frustration for myself and others.
So...yesterday as i wandered into my dealers for the last time and i guess with the glorious weather we are having lately, the workshop garage door was open and my car was STILL on the ramps! This is 3 weeks since i last dropped it off! Really quite sad to see it there.
From the evidence on this thread it looks like a few isolated engines are affected, (which is a few too many) mine was a November build, but who knows how many more people have the problem but are blissfully unaware, its certainly something to think about.
CB

[R60 Mike]

Quote: Originally Posted by CBCooper (original)

I had the chain tensioner piston replaced and it did not rectify the noise. My dealer swopped components from my car to another MCS to see if they could replicate the noise on that car without any success, they then ordered some new tappets and were going to replace all of them to see if that fixed it, i believe this is quite a big task, camshafts out? basically it was another shot in the dark and that was'nt good enough.
I rejected my car last week and after several offers of a new replacement i decided to opt for a refund. I had to contribute to the mileage but the offer was good and i can finally put this experience behind me. I guess i will never know what was wrong with my car, which is a shame as its been 5 months of mysery and frustration for myself and others.
So...yesterday as i wandered into my dealers for the last time and i guess with the glorious weather we are having lately, the workshop garage door was open and my car was STILL on the ramps! This is 3 weeks since i last dropped it off! Really quite sad to see it there.
From the evidence on this thread it looks like a few isolated engines are affected, (which is a few too many) mine was a November build, but who knows how many more people have the problem but are blissfully unaware, its certainly something to think about.
CB

Thats really bad news and i am sorry

mine is in the workshop at the moment but they just say they cant hear the noises that i am describing and just being told its the character of the engine.

There brand my 07 MCS started from cold last friday made the same noise as in my video and the tec guy looked very concerned then I said thats the noise mine makes and he then turned to me and said that its just because there is no hydrolic fluid in engine from cold and its a normal noise untill it pressures up, If you as me thats rubbish if a engine can make that sound then damage is being done and I doubt the cars making this noise will go very far into 20-30k

but back to you CB

what car are you going to buy now, may i suggest the new Civic type R drove 1 last week and its awsome and just about at good is the Type S looks just as good

just glad you got your money back and now happy again

[Den W]

You have my sympathies guys

We've had our 2nd R56 S now for 3 weeks and my one for 6 weeks (Dec 06 build) and as yet OK - touch wood -doyou think you had rogue cars and maybe give MINI another chance or is that it now, time for something new?

Whatever you decide, good luck

Den

[CBCooper]

Hi Mike,
First of all thanks for your support throughout, i know we shared many a frustrated message internally on here and the same for Chipcooper as well.
Like alot of people have suggested in your other post asking for the value of your car, I would seriously consider rejecting your car Mike. It simply isnt right and you should not be the one to suffer. I was all ready to just trade in for another mark and lose a considerable amount of money, but got a severe kick up the backside from my partner and alot of help from family. I have had a bad car before (i'm cursed i tell you!) and i just chopped that car in to save the "hassle" but lost ALOT of money in the process and was duly reminded of the amount. I hate conflict on any level and am really easy going, but when its thousands of pounds at stake, you have to be firm, fair and stick to your guns. If you believe your car is defective and the dealer has not shown any interest in your concern for the engine noise give trading standards a ring, they can give you some solid advice on what to do. You have video evidence as well, your car has also suffered several other faults and is still not right. You have nothing to lose and alot more to gain in my opinion Mike, hang in there!

CB

P.S. Hmm, not sure on the car front just yet, i'm still reeling from the whole car thing at the moment but have quite afew options with the money in hand. I think a bit of digging on the internet for prices and problems on a select few cars that are in my price range, but definately going to have some test drives over the weekend!

[msh441]

Quote: Originally Posted by CBCooper (original)

I had the chain tensioner piston replaced and it did not rectify the noise. My dealer swopped components from my car to another MCS to see if they could replicate the noise on that car without any success, they then ordered some new tappets and were going to replace all of them to see if that fixed it, i believe this is quite a big task, camshafts out?

So can I assume that the cam chain rattle on yours would remain even after the car had an opportunity to warm up? (my apoligies if you answered this allready)

... and yes, tappets are a pretty big job, for sure...

[Dainewb]

Quote: Originally Posted by chipcooper (original)

My engine has gone a lot quieter now the weather has warmed up. I am taking it back to my dealer tomorrow.I have been very patient but I am starting to get a little bit peed off now The car is lumpy on tick over.I still have the faulty gear box that not only makes a strange noise when gearing down from 3rd to 2nd but also makes a loud rattling noise when ticking over then goes when you put you clutch pedal down! I also have a rushing water sound coming from behind the dash when first started up and over the weekend a strange noise has appeared on the steering.And the final straw was when a friend of mine asked me if it was a diesel Not a happy bunny.I Work in the motor trade and drive many a different car- a lot with high milage!!! but i haven't heard anything as hideous as this!!! I have owned 6 minis one being a 51reg that got bought back for having so many faults but i would say this one has to be the worst one

It is interesting because my car has many of these faults!

noise 3rd to 2nd (when driving hard!)

I only notice the rushing water noise when i pull off and dont find it so much of an issue

I have a bit of a tappy sound on tick over but not so bad really.

Still really enjoying the car. It is some interior rattles that are really annoying me!

The other area of concern is the noise changing from 3rd to 2nd as there may be long term issues.

I can't help thinking that if I spent less time on these forums I would be less concerned about these issues, as overall I'm really enjoying the car.

Must say I sold my last cooper before the warranty expired due to gear box being hard to engage in 1st and reverse. i can see myself selling this car before warranty expires as I don't trust the reliability given these bad signs in the short term

[msh441]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dainewb (original)

It is interesting because my car has many of these faults! noise 3rd to 2nd (when driving hard!) I only notice the rushing water noise when i pull off and dont find it so much of an issue I have a bit of a tappy sound on tick over but not so bad really. Still really enjoying the car. It is some interior rattles that are really annoying me! The other area of concern is the noise changing from 3rd to 2nd as there may be long term issues. I can't help thinking that if I spent less time on these forums I would be less concerned about these issues, as overall I'm really enjoying the car.

I'll give you tranny noise... not to be Mr. Doom and Gloom, but so far it sounds like a repeat of the Midlands fiasco brewing up... we'll see. But can you really say the rest are all "faults"? Water rushing? Don't know. Haven't noticed or don't have that. Tappy/ticking sound? It's most likley the common rail DFI system. Interior rattles? All cars can get 'em. If you can track down where they're coming from most are easily fixed once pinpointed.

As far as the forum goes... take it all with a grain of salt. At least you know what big issues and symptems to look out for. You just have to sort through the chaff to get to the wheet, so to speek. There are so many "my engine ticks on idel" posts that when it comes to a real problem (blown gearbox or oil pressure/cam chain clatter) it's easily lumped in with the rest.

Right now we "early adopters" are the lab rats and have taken the role (knowingly or not) of tourture testing the new car. It'll take some time for BMW to idetify, re-engineer and replace faulty parts as they pop-up. Until then, we've got to rely on each other to exchange information. This seems like a good place to do just that.

I'm pretty much betting that over the course of my warranty that my car will be in the shop for one or more true faults (good money goes to the tranny going boom). I'm banking however, that over the next 5-years BMW will have had ample opportunity to get everything sorted with the R56 and the MINI mechanics will eventually know the new car inside and out. It's just going to take some time.

All in all, I'd rather be taking my R56S into the shop once every other month for the next couple years than driving a fault-free (fill in name of 100% reliable yet boring car here). Know what I mean?

[shavedsporty]

hi ,sorry to hear about all your mini problems with the bmw/psa engine. I have had my 207 1.6 thp 150 gt a month now and have written to reject it. I know mini doesn't have the 150 bhp version bit in essence its the same engine. It is flat in low revs and not pulling properly. If its any consolation Peugeots version is not any better!

[chiefy]

I have a new Mini One with the 1.4 Engine which is basically the same as the Cooper and Cooper S as far as the Block and Valve Gear are concerned. Intrigued by this Diesel sound I have been having a good listen to mine. Firstly I think because the engines are all aluminium any noises will be morre apparent as aluminium doesnt have the sound deadening properties that Cast Iron does. Mine has done about 400 miles so far. Listening to it from cold this morning I have the following comments.

1. From cold sitting inside the car the engine sounds like any other.
2. Getting out and listening with the bonnet closed (as soon as it has started) I can hear the quite pronounced ticking noise which is the Fuel Injectors running on a rich mixture at fast idle (about 1200 RPM). There is also a faint chuntering sound - but nothing untoward.
3. Straight after starting - with the bonnet up - the ticking is much louder (but not unusual) and the "chuntering" sound from the top end of the engine is much more audible - but it doesnt concern me. There is no metallic knocking that can be heard.
4. Over a minute'ish as the engine warms up the engine speed reduces and the chuntering sound becomes more audible at lower revs and the ticking stays about the same although slows with the engine speed.
5. After about a minute the the loud ticking shuts off and becomes almost quiet - this happens as the Rich Mixture setting leans off after the short warm up period. More importantly as the Mixture leans off and the ticking quietens down - the chuntering diesel type sound disappears at exactly that moment.

Conclusion - This all appears quiet normal and the chuntering sound is the combustion noise characteristic of these valvetronic engines as they warm up on a rich Mixture. If I had just got in, started the engine and driven away I would never have noticed anything at all as it is barely perceptible inside the car . I have heard nothing that worries me and I would be cautious about getting the garage to mess around with the valve gear etc which may lead to other problems. Unless an actual metallic knocking can definitely be heard (which may or may not be a problem) or it is not idling properly, I would leave well alone and give it a few more miles without trying to get rid of it by giving it a good thrashing etc. I believe this is temperature related and part of the starting/warm up process which you would not notice if you just got in and drove off. IMHO. (I may or may not be right but Engineering is my profession.) I dont believe it is anything to do with oil supply. If oil was taking too long to get up to the Valve Gear or the Chain Tensioner then significant problems would soon become apparent. Th oil in these engines is 0W - 30 which is very thin and will be all round the engine very quickly after start up.

[CBCooper]

From what i can gather the few engines affected by the *diesel* sound have all been Mini Cooper S'. I have not heard of one Cooper owner on these forums with this engine sound. That sound is clearly audible in a video of my (old) car on page 6 of this thread or here :-http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t210/speed3985/?action=view&current=BLUER56MCS.flv
Yes they are a noisy engine, with the fuel injection ticking away etc, but for the few of us whose engines make that noise more frequently its a major concern.
CB

P.S. A little digging on the Mini Cherished search, i found my old car for sale and its not on the forecourt of the dealer that i bought it from and who was attempting to fix my car....

[ASTON]

just seen your old car for sale on mini cherish site. i feel sorry for the person who buys it

[Richard Korby]

I was up on the Northern California coast last week ,one cold morning in the 40's F on start up I got the Diesel sound real bad it lasted about a minute .It has not been talked about lately on the forum what's the update?

[Goyo903]

Hello everyone! I come from the NAM forums and I came across to this! Now I'm in the same situation. When my mini is parked inside the Garage it will start that rattle noise. Yesterday it did the noise but it was not as bad. I decided to drive with the noise and literally like a good 20 seconds later the noise faded. Though still...I'm pretty worried. I really don't have a clue if this would damage the engine.
Now I read all the replies...but there still not a good actual update...so far the dealer is saying "its the characteristics of the car" and other replies I'm finding that the dealer does notice the sound but can't fix it. So do we have to live with this noise?
I might set up a meeting with my dealer...but I'm going to use this forums as proof that i'm not the only OCD Mini paranoid driver when he hears an unusual noise. Will see what happens.

[specky 1]

Just got mine in at the Dealers today , making THE sound . Videoed it doing THE sound and it lasted for over a minute. They were quite alarmed by THE sound and kept car in, even HIRED me a car to use FOC!!!!
Ive been told tonight that they have carried out a process of Bleeding the hydraulic valve timing system and re charging it with new oil. Then they must let it go COLD, before starting the engine in the morning and running it at 2000 to 3000 RPM for 20 minutes. Then they will do this again on Friday morning !!!!!! WHAT IS THAT ALL ABOUT !!!!!! Needless to say i'm not a happy chappie. Sounds like the timing chain tensioner could be hot favourite to me as i've had a similar problem on a 20 valve A4 i owned before i went to MINI's.

[CC07ERS]

its a charictoist of the engine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!