MCS Engine noise when cold

[zyo]

Having said that about not revving it hard , surely if it is only an annoying sound and not anything serious like MINI claim then it wouldn't matter would it?

[Martin F]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tara&Paul (original)

The Ford Pinto OHC (Over Head Cam) had an oil feed pipe which ran along the top of the camshaft. This pipe had tiny holes in it which oil was sprayed from onto the camshaft and valve gear below. The holes in the oil feed pipe were so small, it only took a tiny bit of swarf etc to block the hole and stop the oil feed to the camshaft, resulting in damage to the camshaft etc.

This problem with the oil feed pipe wasn't diagnosed untill many PInto OHC engines started sounding like knackered old diesel engines. My Father had a '78 Cortina which had to have the top half of the engine rebuilt by Ford under warranty after the oil feed pipe became blocked.

I remember the noise my FathersCortina engine used to make, unfortunately it sounds very similar to the noise my R56 S makes when I start it up on a cold morning.

And Ford found out about the Firestone tyre problem after the tyres started failing.

P.

I don't understand your point.

If you are instancing the Pinto engine problem and the Firestone tyre problem as examples of design faults that proved expensive for the manufacturer then I would not disagree that major design faults that lead to serious failures can be costly. I am sure there are other examples.

But if you are suggesting they are relevant to the R56 MCS, where no serious consequences of the noise have been reported in the 26 months since it was launched with many thousands of miles covered, then what would be interesting is if you could confirm that these examples did not manifest themselves on vehicles until more than two years and many thousands of miles.

I suspect the cases you cite started to become evident quite quickly. I certainly think this was the case with the Firestone tyres.

So the longer we go with no serious consequences reported, the more I am convinced that this is a tiresome and unpleasant noise but nothing more serious.

[Gazparc]

Yes, I am sure.

I had my first MCS in July 08 and the fualt displayed with 18 miles on the clock. I went through the process of booking the car in for investigations and they identified the fault and told me of the perm fix promised for December. After much negotiations I agreed a buy back with Mini to receive a replacment vehichle.

My new MCS has a build date of Nov 08 and the fault was even worse in the new one. First displayed at 200 miles. The dealership have been very helpful and they were under the impression that the replacement car would be manufactured with the modified part (sadly it was not).

They took the car back on the 5th Jan and had it for a week. They told me that they were 100% sure the fault had been fixed. I asked if the modified spring loaded tensioner was used and they said yes. I was guaranteed that the fault was fixed for good.

Sadly the fault is not fixed and is as described in my prebious quote. In fact I think I can hear a slight knocking constantly when at about 1000 rpm. My car has only done 600 miles.

I have contacted the dealership and I am told the service manager is discussing with the technical people.

I think this is a fault that affects all MSC cars but due to peoples driving styles, I think it is only displaying in a smaller number of cars.

[Lots]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gazparc (original)

My Car has been in for the promised perm fix (The spring loaded chain tensioner). They had the car a week.

I am sorry to report that the noise is back within 2 days.

I have definatly pin pointed the driving conditions which allow the fault to occur.
I have definitely pin pointed how and when the problem occurs:

The car is driven on a normal journey during the day and then driven home.
The car is left to cool down for 3 hours or more.
I drive the car a few metres in reverse and then forward to swap spaces on the drive with my partner car.
(After cooling) The next morning the noise comes back.

The noise is like a rasping or grating rattle (very much like an old diesel engine). It can be heard at the end of the engine rev in low gears both forward and reverse and it fades away after a few miles of driving. It is quite distinct and I know it is not part of the engines normal noises as it only happens when I recreate the driving conditions above.

I have informed the garage and I am sure they think I am making it up but they have told me that they will contact Mini Technical team to enquire.

What next?

I am sorry to hear that your car is not fixed.

These conditions that you have identified are so true of my car. Always after reversing a short way on the drive or into the garage. It only ever does it at home, never when i am out. It seems quite coincidental that the reverse/moving the car a small distance affects the car.

Caesar is this similar for you as you had a similar effect as me after leaving the car on the drive?

I hope yours get fixed soon.

[mdun6]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gazparc (original)

Yes, I am sure.

I had my first MCS in July 08 and the fualt displayed with 18 miles on the clock. I went through the process of booking the car in for investigations and they identified the fault and told me of the perm fix promised for December. After much negotiations I agreed a buy back with Mini to receive a replacment vehichle.

My new MCS has a build date of Nov 08 and the fault was even worse in the new one. First displayed at 200 miles. The dealership have been very helpful and they were under the impression that the replacement car would be manufactured with the modified part (sadly it was not).

They took the car back on the 5th Jan and had it for a week. They told me that they were 100% sure the fault had been fixed. I asked if the modified spring loaded tensioner was used and they said yes. I was guaranteed that the fault was fixed for good.

Sadly the fault is not fixed and is as described in my prebious quote. In fact I think I can hear a slight knocking constantly when at about 1000 rpm. My car has only done 600 miles.

I have contacted the dealership and I am told the service manager is discussing with the technical people.

I think this is a fault that affects all MSC cars but due to peoples driving styles, I think it is only displaying in a smaller number of cars.

My 2008 Mini/S is at the dealer now. It has the cold start issue as well. I also have some other issues, the heat does not work very well, I'm down to about 22 mpg in the city, I notice moisture around the oil cap and now they say it has a rear main seal leaking. They have not pulled the transmission out yet so I'm not sure what they will find out obout the rear main seal. I am not happy with the sevice manager at the dealer and Mini USA called me at 5:00 on Friday, one of the questions they asked is "what did you tell the dealer you want to do with the car" I told that at the time I would give them their 3 chances to fix but I told Mini USA I want the car bought back after the added problems they found with the car. The car now has 5500 miles on it and I have had it 8 months. Am I doing the right thing by asking them to buy it back? And what do you guys think they will want to do? Any thoughts will be helpful to me as I have never been in a situation like this. Thanks

[Tracie]

Mine has done the rattle 3 times. Its an Nov 08 build and I have done just over 1000 miles, always kept garaged.

The first 2 times it did it was during that cold spell and the temp was minus 2.5 and minus 5.5...it stopped after around 40 secs, buts as soon as it did it I though "Aha..thats the rattle" It only did it in the morning of those 2 occasions and not at any other time on those days.

It did it yesterday though at 8 degrees..I took it out of the garage and onto the driveway which has a gently slope, so car was facing up. It stayed there for a couple of hours as I didn't go out in it yesterday as planned. I started it up to reverse back into the garage ( which is flat btw) and got the rattle for around 30 secs, then it stopped.
I've not gone out today and it will be interesting to see if it does it in the morning after being stood up for best part of 2 days.
I have to say I not overly bothered at this stage, I ordered the car knowing about the rattle issue and went to my local dealers on Friday and reported it in.They have said it won't damaged the engine and They have a car there in their workshop being fixed that does it every single time its started whether hot, cold, mild etc. I said I'd ring in a few weeks to see if its *fixed*..in the mean time "Lots" will let me know how her *fix* goes as well.

I have to say its a great car, I love it, and the rattle doesn't put me off..but it does sound awful.

[caesar]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lots (original)

I am sorry to hear that your car is not fixed.

These conditions that you have identified are so true of my car. Always after reversing a short way on the drive or into the garage. It only ever does it at home, never when i am out. It seems quite coincidental that the reverse/moving the car a small distance affects the car.

Caesar is this similar for you as you had a similar effect as me after leaving the car on the drive?

I hope yours get fixed soon.

Hi Lots,

My June 07 MCS only makes the noise sometimes if it's parked on the downward slope leading to the garage never anywhere else. On these occasions it can be fixed by turning off the engine and re-starting.

I have noticed it does not happen when the barometric air pressure is high. I think it's caused by the oil pump sending aerated oil to the tensioner because the angle it's parked is causing the pump to draw air and oil. The action of doing a restart releases the air allowing the pump to draw pure oil. Possibly there is some connection as well regarding ambient temperature of the oil and the barometric air pressure

[Tara&Paul]

Quote: Originally Posted by Martin F (original)

I don't understand your point.

If you are instancing the Pinto engine problem and the Firestone tyre problem as examples of design faults that proved expensive for the manufacturer then I would not disagree that major design faults that lead to serious failures can be costly. I am sure there are other examples.

But if you are suggesting they are relevant to the R56 MCS, where no serious consequences of the noise have been reported in the 26 months since it was launched with many thousands of miles covered, then what would be interesting is if you could confirm that these examples did not manifest themselves on vehicles until more than two years and many thousands of miles.

I suspect the cases you cite started to become evident quite quickly. I certainly think this was the case with the Firestone tyres.

So the longer we go with no serious consequences reported, the more I am convinced that this is a tiresome and unpleasant noise but nothing more serious.

I'm really sticking my neck out here, so I expect to get my head bitten off. But based on my 25yrs of mechanical engineering experience, the engine in my R56 S is a disaster waiting to happen. I think that the top end rattle on my engine is caused by insufficient oil feed to the appropriate parts..... similar problem as the Ford Pinto engine.

I just hope that I am proved wrong?

P.

[Washy]

Not sure it helps anyone, but before I got rid of mine I could get it to do the noise at will. If I parked on our sloping drive nose down it did it everytime regardless of the temperature. If I parked it nose up it never did it at all.....

[mdun6]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tara&Paul (original)

I'm really sticking my neck out here, so I expect to get my head bitten off. But based on my 25yrs of mechanical engineering experience, the engine in my R56 S is a disaster waiting to happen. I think that the top end rattle on my engine is caused by insufficient oil feed to the appropriate parts..... similar problem as the Ford Pinto engine.

I just hope that I am proved wrong?

P.

I agree with you completely. I was a mechanic for 20yrs and the rattle in my mini engine sound like valve train rattle to me and yes it would be damaging the engine.

[caesar]

Quote: Originally Posted by Washy (original)

Not sure it helps anyone, but before I got rid of mine I could get it to do the noise at will. If I parked on our sloping drive nose down it did it everytime regardless of the temperature. If I parked it nose up it never did it at all.....

I noted a similar thing, if it was parked nose down on the sloping drive and the noise occured, if I gently reversed up the gradient to the road which sloped up........the noise stopped

[Tracie]

Now mine did it with nose pointing up.

[zyo]

Mine was doing it at virtually every start but since it has had a new cam chain and tensioner it hasn't done it yet. It was only Friday I got the car back but I'm hopeful. The car does sound slightly different though.

[Tracie]

Fingers crossed yours is fixed then Zyo

[Bluebabe]

Hi all, just an update from a guy named Tom on the michigan mini motoring site. Tom has got some good technical info and pics, to explain what could be going on with this cold start noise

It is technical but understandable Also the thread is only 12 pages long
You could just read Toms posts and skip the others if you really wanted to cruise thru
Heres the link...COLD START NOISE

I had put this on herea while back, but for the benefit of those who don't want to read through thousands of posts here (which says something in itself, maybe it is time to get this petition up! here and abroad)

Hope it helps