MCS Engine noise when cold

[ShaunSheep]

Quote: Originally Posted by 118 (original)

mine seems fine now, so I think there is a fix

That's very good to hear Ian

I got my car back this afternoon having had the timing chain, tensioner and sprockets replaced.
Fingers crossed it does the trick...

[118]

Quote: Originally Posted by ShaunSheep (original)

That's very good to hear Ian

I got my car back this afternoon having had the timing chain, tensioner and sprockets replaced.
Fingers crossed it does the trick...

Juuuuuuuuuuuules ooooh fingers crossed that yours is all sorted too then

[Tracie]

Perhaps a new thread.. "Mines Been Fixed and it Works! "..or is that a bit optimistic at this stage

[TDLC]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tracie (original)

Perhaps a new thread.. "Mines Been Fixed and it Works! "..or is that a bit optimistic at this stage

Nah, can always start another thread on top of it, "Mines Been Fixed and Worked; Now Back To Square 1" should there be a need...

[BRG_07_S]

I spoke to the dealer yesterday and my MINI is booked in for most of next week to try and sort this fault. Fingers crossed. I was told they will be giving me a 1 series, I hope it is better than the 316i I got last time.
Oliver.

[T80WEB]

I'm really confused, How is it that from the "many" posts on this suggesting that their is a fix for this problem, with some sorted already, which means Mini must have acknowledged the issue, that when I have revisited my dealer this last week, the service manager goes into "auto speak mode", repeating almost word for word what he said 6 months ago, "depends on what the noise, is, whether it goes off after an "acceptable" length of time, etc etc etc" accceptable to who? Will not admit to Mini having a fix.

I really am getting a little tired of this, is there anything I can quote to the guy to get it sorted, it's my wife's car, which means I hear it more from outside the car, and I cannot believe this is not causing some wear!

[Martin F]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bluebabe (original)

Hi all, just an update from a guy named Tom on the michigan mini motoring site. Tom has got some good technical info and pics, to explain what could be going on with this cold start noise

It is technical but understandable Also the thread is only 12 pages long
You could just read Toms posts and skip the others if you really wanted to cruise thru
Heres the link...COLD START NOISE

I had put this on herea while back, but for the benefit of those who don't want to read through thousands of posts here (which says something in itself, maybe it is time to get this petition up! here and abroad)

Hope it helps

The problem I have with this explanation is that what is described is what I would have called noisy tappets which was common on engines before the advent of hydraulic tappets.

In which case why does the fix seem to relate to the timing chain?

[Mini-Trainer]

I got mine back yesterday, it seems the problem has been fixed esp with the 'Cold start Rattle'.

Watch this space see if it lasts.

Rams

[Bluebabe]

Quote: Originally Posted by Martin F (original)

The problem I have with this explanation is that what is described is what I would have called noisy tappets which was common on engines before the advent of hydraulic tappets.

In which case why does the fix seem to relate to the timing chain?

There is a real possibility that there maybe more than one mechanical area, emitting a similiar noise relating to this "cold start noise"
Tom fromm MMMC has observed the points as per below......


I've read on Motoringfile.com a new update (through the comments) stating that a new spring chain tensioner will solve the problem instead of the oil pressure one.

Looking at Tom's gallery it's clear the the HLA items are very different from "standard industry". So, the above mentioned fix will not solve the problem from its root...

What do you think about this? Is it the cheapest solution BMW/PSA can provide?

Cheers

I don't know enough about the PSA Prince engine's lube oil system to comment, but in general, cold start noise can only be corrected by 1) reducing dry lash and/or 2) adding a recirculation feature to the HLA, and/or 3) increasing HLA internal oil reservoir capacity, or 4) replacing HLA with self-contained HLA, or 5) replacing HLA with those incorporating the technology described by US Patent 5,622,147 or 6) replacing them with those incorporating proprietary technology such as I am currently developing.

I have personally benchmarked the INA-manufactured HLA which BMW has specified for the PSA Prince engine. It does not have a recirculation feature and the internal reservoir capacity is probably the world's smallest.

It's quite possible that some owners' cold start issues are caused by the chain tensioner, but correcting that issue won't correct issues caused by inadequate dry lash control in combination with a compromised HLA design.

Please note that "cold start" is a relative term. This term refers to an engine which has been run at operating temperature and then allowed to naturally cool to the ambient temperature, usually taking several hours. Parking the MINI on a moderately sloped driveway at an ambient temperature of 95° F can produce the same NVH as might occur at -40°C. The NVH won't last as long because the oil pump supplies oil to the overhead at a faster rate at warm ambient temperatures.

Couper entertains me with about 1 second of valve train NVH every time I start him in the morning after being parked overnight in my garage. The garage floor is level. I have no doubt that Couper's engine exhibits excessive dry lash at most of the 8 exhaust valve positions.
>>tom<<




I'll have to remember to grab it out of Lewis today, but when I was at GR MINI last time, Ashley informed me that MINI has a new service bulletin about the Cold Start Noise. Her tone suggested she believes it as much as I do but her hands are tied, so to speak.
Anyway.. their new line is that cold start noise originates from the vacuum pump. Customers who complain of the noise are to be told (after confirming that the noise comes from the vacuum pump by unplugging it during a cold start and observing that the noise goes away) that it is a "normal characteristic" of the pump.[/b]
Vacuum pump? I don't have a Diesel. Why does the MINI have a vacuum pump? Assuming that there is indeed a vacuum pump, it is possible that there are two noises that occur during cold start, one from HLA and one from the vacuum pump. The thing I find odd about my own cold start noise experience is that the noise is more pronounced around 1,500 rpm than at idle, which is more typical for HLA.
I'm more than a bit surprised that a noisy vacuum pump is a "normal characteristic". To me that indicates less than competent engineering. I'd never try to hide sloppy engineering behind a "normal characteristic" label. They must think we're all stupid. If it was a normal characteristic, 100% of vacuum pumps would be noisy, but obviously it's a lower percentage than that, so that indicates a latent defect. They need to do an 8D and then a recall to replace the faulty pumps.

If after I change to Castrol Syntec SAE 0W-30 my cold start noise disappears, I'll know for sure that this vacuum pump story is a load of beans. Stay tuned.
>>tom<<

These are some of the areas that have been attributed to the noise, unfortunately it might well be that one fix may not be enough!!
Lets hope this is not the case but from our own experiences with the R56 it could well be the case.!..

[mike ken]

bad news had the new spring tensioner fitted 3 weeks ago
started it up this morning to hear the noise is back

[S8RAH]

Quote: Originally Posted by mike ken (original)

bad news had the new spring tensioner fitted 3 weeks ago
started it up this morning to haer the is back

Oh no!!!!

Having said that, who here is surprised?

[Bluebabe]

Nope not surprised either

MINI are trying to do a cheap fix here, so its back to the waiting room folks!!

[mike ken]

how can a £22000 car sound so bad

spoke to dealer today told me it now needs new timing chain and other bits, will this work ?

[Tracie]

I think we arel waiting for 118 to report back that his hasn't worked after all..here's hoping he doesn't..but with a cold snap heading our way next week time will tell.

[118]

hehe well mine's been 10 1/2 weeks since it was fixed and there have been a few cold snaps, etc and I've been making sure it's parked exactly how I parked when the rattle was there........ all still seems to be ok!