MCS Convertible top not closing

[fasterthanlight]

I don't seem to be having much luck with this car, with its squeaky dashboard / windscreen fault and now a convertible top that is reluctant to close.

Sunday was sunny and mild, so on a drive out, I decided to lower the convertible roof for the first time since before Christmas. That was fine, however, the problem came later when I tried to raise the roof. With the car stopped, handbrake on, engine running, I pressed the switch above the rear view mirror forwards, to raise the top. The four windows, proceeded to drop halfway, as per normal, but then the convertible top refused to close - it made a bit of "electric motor" noise, but didn't actually move. Instead, I got a warning bleep and the display on the rev counter changed to the "Soft top unlocked" symbol in red (as shown on p133 of the car's manual). I checked for obstructions - there were none, I checked to see that the parcel shelf was resting on the switch that permits the soft top to operate - it was, I checked that the "easy access" handles were in their correct positions - and they were. I toggled the convertible top operation switch back to fully "open" then changed again to "close". This time the top closed and I put it down to a momentary glitch, although the top has worked without any problems on all previous occasions.

Much later in the day, I went out again, and once more lowered the top. When I came to raise the top, once again it refused to raise once the windows had lowered to their half way position, with the same error message on the rev counter display. This time, no amount of toggling of the switch seemed to work. I drove the car a bit more, stopped and tried again. Several times it refused to raise and then eventually it decided to raise, although I did note that at the end of the top closing operation, only 3 windows had fully closed. The driver's window had not closed properly.

An hour or so later, with the car on my drive, I decided to test the top a final time. With the engine running, the top lowered with no problems. The top then refused to raise once more... I fully lowered all four windows manually, and after a bit of toggling on the open/close switch (i.e. it still didn't work first time), the car decided that the top was ok to raise and it closed. However, once again the driver's window did not close all the way.

Not sure if the driver's window issue is related to the top not wanting to close, but I have noticed that over time, it is closing with more and more of a "clunk" than the passenger side window, and that sometimes, as it goes up on a close operation, it stops before it closes and opens again, as if it's detected and obstruction. This seems to be a common problem with Second Generation cars judging by the threads on here, but given mine was only built in Sept 2009, you'd think they'd have fixed it by now. I don't see how this would stop the convertible top from closing though, especially if I had manually lowered the windows fully and the top still wouldn't work...

The car is going into the dealer on Tuesday to have the intermittent squeaky dashboard / windscreen issue looked at, so now I guess they will be investigating this too.

I'm beginning to wish I still had my 3rd Gen MX-5 with it's manual fold top. At least that always worked! The manual close procedure for the Mini just doesn't bear thinking about...

[fasterthanlight]

Okay, the car's been at the dealers for 4 days this week while a couple of warranty issues have been investigated (but not all solved...).

The dealer reckons that the top frequently refused to raise because it couldn't tell where the driver's window was located, so it seems to have been related to the driver's window closing problem afterall. They have "re-initialised" the window system, which presumably means teaching the car where the windows are again and that appears to have cleared the roof closing fault - for now.

I'm a little disappointed that they didn't need to replace anything, as surely it's likely the fault may occur again...? Hopefully the weather will improve soon so that I can test it myself.

[Malc6552UK]

Sorryto hear bout ya roof, would be interested in knowing if its the 2009 R57 Mini as thats the version we own

[fasterthanlight]

Quote: Originally Posted by Malc6552UK (original)

Sorryto hear bout ya roof, would be interested in knowing if its the 2009 R57 Mini as thats the version we own

Yes, my car was built in September 2009, so that would make it the R57.

[MCSCHB]

I know exactly how you feel, we first had this problem between christmas and new year, basically the dealer got the roof back up, because there was no error code no parts were replaced. then at the end of January it happened again "apparently" they found an error code on the microswitch in the boot, so they cahnged that 2 weeks go by then last wednesday we went out for the first time with the roof down...guess what... its stuck again. car is back at dealer, they have an error code which basically as far as I understand is telling them the drives for the roof have lost their set points but they cant do anything with it until instruction from BMW, been waiting since last thursday when they sent the E-mail to BMW.
My car was also built in Sept 09, sounds like we have the same problem.
keep in touch Im sure we can join forces on this one, I mean whats the point in spending 23K on a cooperS convertable if you cant have confidence in the roof may as well have saved 3K and had same spec hard top. so at the moment the car is not fit for purpose and doesnt do what it is designed to do both grounds for a full refund Im sure...need to speak to citezens advice and trading standards me thinks...
Oh well will let you know when I get the car back what the diagnosis is.
P.S. compare the 2 levers in the boot you will see a little triangle on the near side one, check the quality of the technicians at your dealership by asking what it is? Its another interlock (i.e. microswitch) that a sensor detects the lever is in the right position "apparently" my technician didnt know at first.

Speak soon
Rob
P.S. I need to upload pics and details of new car, havnt been on for over 12 months

[fasterthanlight]

Sorry to hear you've got the same roof closing problem as me. Interesting that both cars were built around the same time.

The reliability of the roof closing is a really big issue. Now that it hasn't worked once, my confidence is pretty much destroyed. I'm even reluctant to lower the driver's window - the apparent cause of the problem. Worse, I am supposed to be taking the car to Switzerland and Austria for a couple of weeks in September - what do I do if it fails over there? Perhaps I ought to take a tarpaulin with me... very classy. Not a happy bunny!

23k was a lot for me to spend on this car. With the various problems I've had, if Mini told me tomorrow that I could get my money back, I'd bite their hand off and go straight back to an MX-5. Not how I thought I'd be feeling 5 months into ownership of a premium car.

Following my "repair" last Friday, the technician told me that if the problem occurs again, then they will probably be replacing the roof motors - which I don't think is the problem, but what do I know. I look forward to hearing your report when you get your car back and hope that they've actually fixed it.

[MCSCHB]

Well they have had a response from BMW, who have asked for them to take dimensions of the drives, not sure what that is going to achieve.

Anyway I asked at what point does a specialist come and look at the car as I understand the dealer cant know everything (Im being fair) I was just told its in BMW hands and they can only wait for instructions..................So I just have to stay frustrated!!!!

I did make it clear to them that I was aware that this was not an isolated problem, so I have got them on the back foot now, also I had them at the start when I took it in last week and suggested the drives had lost their logic from the PLC drive controllers, now that kinda stumped them that the customer new that kind of technical detail!!!

Anyway will let you know how we get on, feeling the same lack of confidence, I feel now that any trip with the roof down needs to have a dealership within easy distance for recovery and I need to be within distance of a dealer before they shut too................

[MCSCHB]

Well recieved a call from one of the workshop guys today, he had been off last week when the car went in and had been given the job to progress so wanted some info on what was wrong with the car. Im not impressed, do they not know how to do a handover???

Anyway after giving him all the info he wanted and more, he explained that really he needed the car in the fault condition.....Annoyed to say the least I explained that the car had been left at the garage in the fault condition!! however the roof had now been raised manually and was now operating from the toggle switch. I was informed that 19 fault codes had been recorded in the cars computer, Investigate that I would have thought??? Anyway they are again waiting for instruction from BMW.
So I have made it clear that I do not want the car back until the fault has been diagnosed and what ever fix required (software, new parts) has been applied.
I have also made them aware that I am considering my options on this matter, Citzens advice has some very usefull information.

Well we will see what tomorrow brings....living in hope....

Anybody any legal advice?

[MCSCHB]

And I was told they had taken some more measurements that have been sent to BMW, now they are waiting for an answer? Also told the specialist engineer is coming, they didnt say when though?
Made it clear to the foreman I wasnt happy with how things were being progressed/handed over between the mechanics (see previous post) and made him aware that "when" and "if" it is fixed that I will required a full written report detailing the repair work and tests carried out and also all conversations, e-mails and information that has been sent between everyone.

Feeling very frustrated and not sure who I should be frustrated with.......

[fasterthanlight]

Still waiting for the weather to improve so I can test my "repaired" roof, but thanks for keeping us up to date with the trials and tribulations that your dealer is putting you through. Sounds like they're not up to standard on the customer service front. I take it you didn't buy your first generation Mini Convertible from this dealer too?

[MCSCHB]

Well a new part has been fitted, not sure what though yet but will find out.
I think a lot of head scratching has been goin on on this one, however they still want to keep hold of the car to check the roofs operation been told they want to try it when it gets colder, well my recolection from the handbook is the roof can operate upto -12, well it aint gona get that cold this weekend!!

As for the dealer we have had 3 new minis and 4 new volvos from this dealer since 2000, cant say that the after sales is bad, they know who I am and have always resolved issues maturely, its a hard one for me as I work in a specialist engineering field and do have an understanding of protocol and procedures that need to be followed to ensure the fix is carried out correctly and that parts are not just thrown at the vehicle, hence my patience but frustration which I believe should be laid at BMWs door and not the dealer. OK they may have some internal knowledge and job handover issues and I can accept them as no one is perfect and we cant expect them to know everything, we shall see when I get the full report and after i have spoken to the Dealer principle.......

[fasterthanlight]

I'm not sure what BMW soft tops normally say, but I practically fell off my chair when I originally read "-12C" in the Mini's manual. It seems a ridiculously low temperature for a fabric roof to be lowered.

I'm all for driving with the wind deflector up and a beany hat on my head on a cold day - I love it - but not that cold. I still stick rigidly to the same rules as laid down for my fabric roofed MX-5, which said that "+5C" was the lowest temperature you could lower the roof. I think Mazda even used to say that for the folding hardtop too. I also don't think I'd want to hear the roof motors trying to fold a roof at -12C - mine make enough noise as it is.

P.S. I had to chuckle today when, with our roof closing issues, I saw the original publicity videos for the second generation convertible, "Rain is just a four letter word", "Always open". For us it seems that this is by design!

[MCSCHB]

New roof motor and full factory reset of windows, latest software etc etc, still carrying out tests, definitely ****ed off with BMW now as they advise the dealer.

As for th -12 no issue with that really, the +5 will generally be because of rear acrylic windows, modern advances in technology and fluids allow mechanics to operate at lower temperatures.

Well its 2 weeks now and I pay £400 a month so I guess BMW owe me £200 now

[fasterthanlight]

Interesting that the roof motors have been replaced, as that's exactly what my technician said he would be doing for me, if mine failed again.

Coincidently, my car is with the dealer once again investigating the windscreen squeaking problem I've detailed in my other thread, so imagine my surprise when I was given an update today saying that the roof had failed again. I hadn't even asked them to check it! Good job they did I suppose, as the factory reset of the windows they did before obviously hadn't put the issue to bed.

Anyway, some parts (as yet unspecified) have been ordered and are due Wednesday for fitting. Wonder if it's a roof motor?

Oh, and letter also left with Dealer Principal to formally record my dissatisfaction with the quality of this particular car.

[MCSCHB]

Well the new motor (was actually the sunroof (seperate motor) function motor) and re set of software didnt sort it.

Car is still with the dealer and they are having it fault in the open position again, they have fault finded to a positional sensor in the roof which they have now ordered and fitted they want to keep the car over the weekend to see how it is.

So over 2 weeks now the car has been with the dealer, this is its 3rd visit, If I get it back "Fixed" and it fails again its full refund time as its less than 6 months old:
Buying a New Car: Your Rights - Consumer Rights Expert (UK)

Im keeping my cool with the dealer as MINI made the dog of a car so their responsibility I say, however when I look into it with a bit of google serching it appears the Dealer is responsible as they supplied goods that were not fit for the purpose intended, I guess they would then take it up with BMW MINI??

: angry::a ngry: