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Burned exhaust valves on R56 Cooper S

47K views 16 replies 10 participants last post by  MiniToBe 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi all,

I am trying to put out the feelers to see if anybody else has anybody heard of the exhaust valves burning on a Cooper S before, and what the possible causes might be?

The car, which is still on finance, has been with chandlers for a few days and they have identified burned valves on cylinder 1, causing it to misfire.

They say they want to remove the head and assembly etc to further investigate but have told me that just the investigation process alone will cost in excess of £1800 + parts

Obviously this is a disastrous thing to have happened to a car that is only just over 4 years old - do you suppose it is a defective part, or could i have caused this is some way??

Mark :confused:
 
#2 ·
I should note that since my ownership (i have owned it a little over 2 years) it has had to have the cam tensioner done twice, and it has been in for a misfire problem twice in the past year as well.

The dealers said they could not identify the cause of the EML light or the misfire on either occasion, and simply said that the popping sound i was hearing is a 'feature of the cooper s model'
 
#3 ·
I have been having misfiring on my R56 MCS recently too. I took it to the garage on tuesday after it started popping much louder and more frequently than normal as well as idle becoming much rougher. They did a compression check which showed one cylinder was low. At this point they thought it was going to be a burnt valve.

After spending a day taking everything apart it was not the exhaust valve but a piston which had a chunk missing from the top edge aswell as the rings being in pieces.

I'm having all pistons replaced as I don't want to have any issues a few months down the line having paid out on all the labour costs.

I'm speaking with BMW as this seems completely un reasonable for a car of this age & milage (38000)
 

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#4 ·
Oh my days!

How much did that cost??

Did chandlers not agree to give you a reduction of labour / parts etc?

I don't think its fair that we should have to pay anything to be honest, is that what the BMW negotiations are about? I'm worried that i will have to do this in the near future :(
 
#5 ·
This isn't at a BMW garage as it's just out of warranty and I have found them useless in the past. I think this is going to go against me in trying to get any contribution. Looking at labour of about £700 plus all the parts, each piston is £135!

It's just a joke on such young cars!
 
#6 ·
Yeah, i think you may have had more of a chance with BMW negotiations if you'd chosen to have chandlers do the work - i might be wrong though.

I found out some interesting news tonight. Was told by one of the workshop at chandlers that they had never known a valve to burn out on one of these cars - turns out from speaking to a local mechanic who regularly works on minis that valves burning is a common problem!

Now i'm really worried that i can't trust chandlers to be honest with me :(

The chap i spoke to said the most common cause of this is bad (low octane) fuel.

Do you suppose something like that might have affected your pistons or do your garage suspect a different reason?
 
#8 ·
R56 Cooper S - Valves need replacing :(

Hi there. This post is mainly aimed at GoFaStEr as the problem I am having is suspiciously similar!

I have been an avid follower of the MINI2.com forum, although I have never brought myself to registering and posting, until recently that is... About a month ago, my car started to develop a very lumpy idle sounding like it was missing a beat every couple of seconds. This slowly got worse until the point that when the engine was cold it kept 'hiccuping' under anything other than light throttle. It was fine again once it warmed up, but it got me worrying that something wasn't quite right. About two weeks ago, the problem developed yet further when I was driving home from work on the A34 and the engine management light came on followed by a noticable drop in engine power. As the A34 has no hard shoulder, I continued for another minute until I found a lay-by, by which point the warning light now flashed green (engine management light with the diagonal line through it). I stopped, checked the manual to see what it meant, turned off the engine for a couple of minutes, before continuing my journey home (about 5mins away) at a seriously reduced pace. I booked my car into MINI who diagnosed the problem as the valves not being seated properly. They said that all valves would need to be replaced (£1800ish), £800 for parts and £1000 for labour.

Before I go any further I would to say that I bought my R56 Cooper S brand new in March 2007 (Jan 07 built). It now has 60k. I have bought the TLC and TLCXL packs with all servicing from new being done by MINI. Like many, I suffered (and still suffer from) the diesel like rattle at start up, resulting in the tensioner being changed at around 40k. The problem went away until about 45k but did eventually return, becoming even worse than before. More recently, the car started to develope a misfire, particulary around 3k rpm in 6th under load (ie uphill), or when the car was 3/4 people up. Every time I brought it in for a service I would explain this and they could never find a problem. This was frustrating, because the problem was quite intermittant and in turn was really difficult to demonstrate on command, hence, I don't think they ever took the problem that seriously. I will confess that I do drive the car quite spiritedly, but I make a point of driving gently until it has properly warmed up and again for a few minutes before turning the engine off. I also check the oil regulary, usually putting in about 1 litre/2k miles. Overall, however, I feel I don't drive any harder than a car of this nature should be capable of handling with ease.

Right, back to the problem. I complained to MINI who almost without hesitation, conceaded to paying for the parts for free. Whilst this may seem generous, especially on a 4yr old car, I explained that a problem as serious as this on a car with only 60k miles is surely a design related/manufacturer's problem and not something that I had influence over (i.e. a clutch wearing out prematurely); especially given that I only ever serviced the car with MINI and I had noted the misfiring problem on several occassions. I went on to say that I didn't feel as though I was more than 50% reponsible for the problem even though they were asking me to pay more than 50% of the cost and I would like their contribution to be improved. As of Friday 13th, MINI had acknowledged that I was not happy with their offer and that they would get back to me by next Wednesday 18th. So that is where I am at the moment, almost sleepless nights thinking about the whole thing!

I will say however, I absolutely love my MINI, far and away the best car I have ever owned, and engine aside, dare I say it, the most reliable car I have ever owned! MINI Hanborough (Oxford) service team have been really helpful and have provided me with a coutesy car for free for the whole time my car has been in the workshop.... but the whole engine reliablilty issue has really put me off, and I have pretty much accepted that once I get my car back, I am going to get rid of it. I enjoy driving too much to constantly worry about whether or not something like this will happen again.

I just though you might be interested in hearing how things have panned out for me, especially since it sounds like you are having a very similar problem. I will continue posting any developments as and when they happen, but I would also be interested in hearing how things are working out on your end!

Cheers,

Shane
 
#9 ·
Bad exhaust valve(s) on cyl #1 also

Hi guys. Just confirmed with leakdown test in my driveway. I placed rubber gloves over exhaust, intake, and pcv fitting on valvecover, and pressure out tailpipe was def. the exit route. Also turned crank one more time to make sure I was in compression and not exhaust stroke. Honestly I was anticipating intake valve problem as these cars with DI don't clean those valves with fuel. I tried a copious amount of Seafoam (carbon solvent) sprayed into the pcv hose and it did spew a ton of smoke (sign that it worked), but still no compression on cyl #1.

Did you all get final resolution and was it valves burned, worn seats, carbon or what? I plan on pulling the head myself to do this job. This will be the newest car I've worked on, as I usually only have to do jobs like this on my old Spitfires and MGs. Seems like it'll be a pretty huge job just to expose and lift the head, judging by some photos I've seen of the front ends torn off to get to it. I just ordered TIS workshop DVDs from Ebay (out of Britain actually).

I'm hoping this is the catalyst for us to purchase an Elise!:biggrin:
-kARL
 
#10 ·
Hi, I'm a newbie to mini2 and came across your posts as I was researching burnt valves. Reading 'Shane1985' was almost identical to my current problem. I am very interested to see how many other mini owners are experiencing similar probs. Now for my rant.....
I have owned my Cooper S since 2007 from new and have been forever topping up the oil, always using recommended (expensive) Castrol, always taken my car to dealer for services etc. I have been to the dealer several times with the reoccurring problem of 'diesel like' engine noise. After several vists and tightening of the timing chain they eventually replaced it. It ran okay for a while but then two weeks ago 'ignition1' light illuminated on the dash. Mini had a look and it was showing as a misfire on cylinder 3. They replaced my spark plugs to the tune of £100 as they 'appeared to be dirty' after first insulting me by asking if i'd used a pressure washer on the engine or had i left the filler cap off when topping up my oil. I was told it was still showing as misfire cyclinder 3 so it might be my EMU at a cost of apprx £1000 plus £800 days labour to investigate the prob. I took my car elsewhere! The independent technician I took my car to found the cause at a lot cheaper labour cost. One of the valves on cylinder 3 had a hole in it 1cm diameter! All cylinders were wet with oil and carboned and the piston filters were restricted with carbon build up. He said BMW should be made aware of this as he had never seen a car so young in such a poor state. He said he could see the car hadn't been abused when driven as there were no score marks on the bore and the turbo was immaculate bu was shocked how often I top the oil up. The car is obviously burning oil in excess. I spoke to mini customer services and was told my car had to be checked by their own techs to diagnose the problem I didn't make an official complaint at that point and decided to give the usual dealer the chance to rectify the problem first. I had to pay to transport my car back to the dealer as it couldn't be driven. The mini dealer now have my car and advised me not to make a formal complaint as mini head office policy is not to offer good will if the customer has gone elsewhere! They have now had my car 5 days and agree that 4 valves on cylinder 3 have burnt out and have offered a gesture of 'good will' and 80% of labour to replace those however have recommended I replace the other 12 at my own cost so I'll have a lovely bill of over £600! I have expressed that I am still concerned that there is a more serious underlying problem why my car is burning oil in excess and is carboned so badly. Their response was that they wouldn't be investigating further and couldn't guarantee any engine. I am considering taking this further or even contacting Watchdog! I'll be interested to see how those of you with similar probs have got on and have you experienced any further problems since repairs?
 
#11 ·
Burnt valves

Hi
We got our MCS, used, in Jan 09. We have had the dreaded timing chain and tensioner replaced. It was at that time that we decided to take out the Mini extended warranty. Our car is running great but uses a lot of oil, even by Mini standards. I check and top up (depending on how much mileage we've done) the oil every 2weeks. However, I feel that the engines are so highly strung, the warranty was worth the extra piece of mind. I don't know but would hope that the Mini warranty would cover some of the costs, if not all, of a major engine problem as long as the car has a full Mini service history and at the right intervals. Others may know differently.
 
#13 ·
Hi Baby H,
Let us know how you resolve it. When I get my head off, I plan to clean and replace any valves that are damaged, but also to replace the valve seals. I've read elsewhere that faulty valve seals (not necessarily guides) are to blame for the oil consumption, which therefore makes it down the guides, carbons up the whole combustion chamber valve head combo and generally begins this path toward valve/seat destruction. The valve seals may be failing because of the direct injection carbon problem on the intake valves. Make sure MINI inspects your seats for wear and reconditions the entire head including the seals, though it sounds like they've determined that you need a whole head overhaul anyway. It's a shame there isn't a big aftermarket head community for the R56 yet, because the labor/part$ it takes to renew/refurbish a 16 valve head might come close to the price of a new one if there was a lot of demand + supply (3 years from now there will be!!).

We did get an '09 Elise last week, so now the pressure's off to fix MINI fast, and I can take my time repairing at home. Also got my TIS e-manual and I'm ready to tear into it.
 
#14 ·
Hi all,

Not sure if anyone is reading this thread anymore but i thought it best post an update on how i got on.

Despite being urged by many well meaning colleagues to avoid the main dealers and get it done by dodgy dave down the road, i loyally took my cooper S back to Chandlers and argued my case with one of the managers - after all, the car was only 4 years old, bought from their used and approved scheme, & only ever having serviced by them...etc

They took the head off & identified that the exhaust valves on cylinder 1 had melted and needed to replace them. The cost of this i was told would have been around £1700 of labour + parts - ouch!

Thankfully MINI offered a goodwill gesture of 50% labour & free parts, so the price all in for a rebuild with 2 year warranty came to a little over £800 :)

I'm still amazed that a 4 year old MINI could need such major work after just 4 years, but none the less it turned out less expensive than taking it elsewhere AND i got a 2 year warranty! :D
 
#15 ·
cylinder 1 misfire turned into 3 and 4 also

so i bought r56 and it kept giving misfire 1 and vanos solenoid a week after buying! after reading all this im betting its burned valves also.the newly replaced spark plugs at $25 a piece are burnt black and wet at the bottom... yesterday we replaced vanos solenoids for nothing, it still shakes violently and they couldnt figure out the problem, but now i will go to dealership and tell them what i just discovered, i did not buy the car from them but its their product...after many failed tries to figure out what the problem was, i just hope they will help me with the costs. maybe i should call 1-800 # first before dealing with service manager first??? i havent even had the car for a month and ive already spent over $700, this is my worst nightmare ever, the thing is that it started out with cylinder 1 misfire, but now its 1 3 and 4, also giving me bank 1 too lean and also exhaust issue, i cant believe all these codes within a month, i dont get it
 
#16 ·
+1 Burnt exhaust valve here

Have just paid c£1500 for the work to fix the outcome of a burnt exhaust valve (no. 4 cylinder).

This is a car bought in May on 48k miles and is now on 58k miles, half driven by my wife a pottering speed and half by me, more aggressively but never in the red.

The engine also uses more oil than I would expect.
 
#17 ·
I am amazed with these stories people! I think Mini should go out of business and shut their crapy factories down. There is no intelligent customer service, you have to pay cash, no helpful, don't admit their product is faulty, and worst yet, they are still adding more models to the failing collection. :-(
 
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