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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Apr 2nd, 2014, 01:06 PM
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stop start nightmare PLEASE HELP !!!!

Hi, I bought my 2009 Cooper D (40k miles FSH). about 6 months ago and love it.
Only one problem.
The stop start keeps cutting out and then restarting after about 3 seconds.
I have renewed the battery (150!) but this has made no difference.
It is not doing it due to the outside temperature or the fact that I have too many things on in the car. It does it when the car is fully warmed up.
I have had it to a (non authorised) Mini dealer who has had it on the diagnostics and it is fault free.
My problem is that I am using the car for driving instruction and this has to be rectified before I can carry out a test in it (about 3 weeks time).
BMW have just said bring it in and they will put it on diagnostics (120/hour!), with no idea how long it will take.
A friend of mine has said that he can turn the stop start off completely however this will throw up a warning light on the dash (which will not allow me to do driving tests in it).
Moneys tight and I don't want to be shafted by BMW.
Can anybody offer any help/suggestions please.??
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Old Apr 2nd, 2014, 03:19 PM
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Get your friend to turn it off then take it a garage or someone with a diagnostics reader to turn the warning light off

Problem solved.
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Old Apr 2nd, 2014, 05:36 PM
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Cant you turn it off yourself once its started? using the button in front of the gear lever, it means you would have to press it each time you start up to cancel it the stop start system.
Would get you by in the short term.

Or have you already tried that and still no good?

Ahh just realised the test examiner wouldnt allow the pupil to turn it off though would they?? although I dont see why not, its not a safety device just an economy one.
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Old Apr 3rd, 2014, 07:13 AM
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My sister who is also a driving instructor has the Mini one D (11 plate). Her stop start works fine and she actually leaves it on on lessons/tests.
If mine worked fine, I would also leave it on.
I know it sounds daft but when the engine stops and then immediately restarts, it confuses the pupils.
Also, again I know it sounds daft, but I dont want the pupils to have to switch it off every time. Its just one more thing to think about and will only confuse them more.
Obviously the answer is to get the stop start working. I have spoken to the service guy at the main dealers just to see if he had come across this before (hoping its just the temperature sensor or something), but he wasn`t any help.
Its spoiling what is otherwise a cracking little car. Has anyone come across this before?
I am beginning to think it might be the reason the previous seller was selling the car.
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Old Apr 3rd, 2014, 09:09 AM
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Does it do it if you keep your foot on the clutch or brake pedal, it shouldnt stop unless its in neutral and all feet off the pedals and no heavy engine demand from the electrical systems you might have on, and engine up to temperature of course?
Does it do it if the air conditioning is on? It shouldnt, due to the demand on the engine, though maybe you dont have that on the D One as standard, its a no cost option when ordering the car for some reason, so daft not to have it really?
If you keep the air con on if you have it, that should cut out the stop start too?
Are the idle revs a little too slow? I know when learning you tell pupils to crawl up to a corner and try to keep going and pull out if nothing is coming without stopping, this can drag the engine revs right down so if you suddenly declutch to stop, the car might think is its about to stall and this might affect the stop start system?
Does it do it every time you stop? or only in certain cases?
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Old Apr 3rd, 2014, 12:44 PM
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The stop start function only operates when it should do (ie. when engine up to temp, no undue electrical load on the engine, outside temp above certain level etc.
The only thing it is doing incorrectly is, once it switches off, after approx 3 seconds (without touching anything), the engine restarts.
It then does this everytime you stop.
I read on this forum (& was told by others), that it is the battery (not being able to hold the necessary charge). I understood this and tried charging the battery (I think it was the original Yuasa battery on the car). This made no difference. As such I renewed the battery. This made no difference.
I have heard somewhere that the new battery needs to be `coded` to the car?
Has anyone any ideas??
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Old Apr 3rd, 2014, 01:25 PM
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Ah right I see, yes a voltage drop will cause it to restart immediately.
Ive consulted the workshop manual.
That says:
When re installing the battery the following steps are necessary:
If a higher specification battery is installed, recode CAS with the correct battery specifications using the MINI scan tool.
Register the battery, but thats on vehicles fitted with the intelligent battery sensor, without battery registration odd electrical behavior will be experienced and systems faults may result.

So if youve fitted a battery where the Amperage is say slightly different to the one removed, the computer will spot a voltage difference to what it was taught and thus might cause the car to restart.

So you might be onto something there with that?
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Old Apr 3rd, 2014, 04:10 PM
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That sounds really good.
I have got the original battery and I will check the new battery details.
I was told it was the correct one for the car but will check.
I so hope you are correct.
Thanks in advance and I will let you know
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Old Apr 4th, 2014, 01:03 PM
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Guys... The capacity of the battery (ie. if it is 70A or 90A) should not affect the voltage. However you still need an AGM battery for start-stop equipped vehicles. The problem with the battery management, is that the ECU cannot measure the actual charge in the battery ie. the Amperage. However a healthy battery will fluctuate its voltage proportionally to the charge and load so the computer tries to guess the state of charge by measuring the voltage over time and calculating the load. Since time-based measurements are involved in the calculation of the charge, even if exchange the battery the ECU will not register the change immediately by itself. That is why they provide the diagnostic function to reset the battery measurements and the low-charge anti-measures (register new battery). The capacity coding also has to do with the parameters used for calculating the charge etc, but is not critical for the functioning of the systems.

Below is the WDS entry on the Start-Stop system:

The MSA function is strongly networked with the power management. In the event of a battery replacement, disconnection of the battery or after programming the engine management system, the reference data regarding the battery charge state and battery condition can be lost.
They are only available again after a closed-circuit current measurement of approx. 6 hours (e.g. closed-circuit current measurement overnight) in which the vehicle may not be wakened. In this training period, the MSA function is not active.
The customer is to be notified of this when the vehicle is handed over. The MSA function switches back automatically to active as soon as the necessary routine have been completed successfully.
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Old Apr 7th, 2014, 10:42 AM
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Thanks Alex but I am not sure what all that means??
The original battery was a VARTA 760A, 760CCA 120RC
The new battery is a Platinum start stop plus, part nr AGM 096 760 Amps, 70 Ah (20 h).
It seems that the new battery is the same as the original?
If you could explain to me in `laymans terms` whats required. I would be very grateful.
Thanks in anticipation.
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Old Apr 15th, 2014, 04:35 PM
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Did you have the new battery programmed into the car?

On a 2009 Cooper D the battery cannot just be changed. It also has to be registered as a new battery so that the car computer can monitor charge status and other conditions.
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Old Apr 16th, 2014, 03:31 PM
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no I have not had the new battery registered to the car.
I was not (until now) aware that this was necessary.
Do you think this will resolve the issue (hope so!) and any idea how much a dealer (I assume the dealer needs to do it), would charge?
Many many thanks for your help.
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Old Apr 16th, 2014, 06:30 PM
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I do suspect this is the issue and that registering the new battery to the car will resolve the problem which I think is the charge status is not being reported correctly.

Not sure of the cost, but I know it has to be done. Battery replacement is not a simple as just removing the old one and putting in a new one. I was quoted about €200 for battery and computer programming by an authorised dealer. I guess if you already have a new battery it shouldn't be that expensive.
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Old Apr 22nd, 2014, 01:17 PM
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many thanks. i will contact them and see what the cost is/
I will let you know the outcome
Thanks to everyone for their advice.
Lloyd
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Old Apr 22nd, 2014, 03:58 PM
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if you use the stop start system you have to have the new battery coded to the ibs,if you don't then there is no need..i had this conversation the other week at my dealer..
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