LPG Conversion? MINI SAYS NO!!!!!

[Union Jacks]

As a Driving Instructor and an avid MINI Driver I have decided to give up my MINI One D after 185,000 fairly trouble free miles for a Cooper S 2nd Gen - but understand that MPG would be a great issue due to doing 1200miles each week - I have therfore decided to travel the LPG route.
I emailed MINI UK Customer Service yesterday about having a cooper S converted and here's their response:-

Thank you for your email to MINI Customer Information.

We can confirm that MINI do not recommend and therefore do not offer conversions of our vehicles to run on LPG. This is for a number of reasons, as listed below:

• MINI petrol engines are designed for petrol fuel (liquid fuel). The use of other fuels requires massive modifications to maintain MINI standards
• At high engine loads using gas it is possible that thermal damage will occur around the valves since gas does not offer a lubrication effect. Petrol contains additives for this purpose
• MINI have reservations relating to the thermal stresses placed on exhaust components. Such high temperatures occur when gas is used as a fuel and the engine is working at full capacity that the catalytic converter may be damaged and as a result the engine will be unable to comply with emission limits
• The homologation for bivalent operation can cause problems since all OBD requirements must be satisfied. In addition, the technical integration for switching between the two fuels is very complicated
• The car becomes heavier (tanks) and the boot space is reduced in cars that do not have a spare wheel trough

As such if you were to carry out an LPG conversion on your vehicle, this would have an affect on your warranty and any service and maintenance pack, as MINI dealerships are not qualified to service and maintain converted vehicles and therefore would be unable to do so.
[Neither a MINI dealership nor MINI can be held responsible for modifications to the vehicle that lead to defects.[/font]
We are sorry that we have been unable to offer a more positive response on this occasion.
Yours sincerely


MINI UK
Product Information Advisor
Ellesfield Avenue
Bracknell RG12 8TA

Has anyone at MINI2 had a Cooper S R56 converted and know of any warranty issues?
cheers in advance

[minicabrio]

It has been done with a Cooper, but not an S as far as I'm aware.....

These threads may help:

http://www.mini2.com/forum/2nd-gen-m...onversion.html
http://www.mini2.com/forum/general-d...ons-minis.html

[Union Jacks]

cheers for the links minicabrio that helps alot

still wondering whether a Turbo will give any different performance or warranty problems?????

[minicabrio]

One thing on the turbo engine is the fuel rail operates at a very high pressure compared with the normally aspirated versions, hence the slight diesel-like ticking noise the turbo S engine can give.

In principle there shouldn't be any problem to convert a turbo engine to LPG. In fact it can even be better due to the high octane number of LPG, preventing engine knock when running higher boost levels. In practice though, I'm not sure how the LPG would affect various conponents of the engine such as valves etc...

Worth checking to see what kind of warranty the company carrying out the conversion will give, and whether or not it covers damage to the engine.

[Union Jacks]

yup that's what i'm worried about

[carboncrazy]

WARRANTEE ISSUES!

If you were to do the conversion like they said they will not even touch you car. Not even for a SERVICE. If you want to run a car with a LPG conversion but still want speed buy a CORSA VXR 1.6 TURBO its quicker than an S and half the price so when something does go wrong you haven't ruined an £18,000 car.

Just my veiw but when it comes to BMW you can't even swap Alloys without them causing a bit of a fuss.

Joe

[Fin]

A MCS as an instructor car? That would be awesome. I had to learn to drive in a Fiat Punto with a horrible clutch.

Although, the insurance must be incredible surely!?

[Union Jacks]

Quote: Originally Posted by carboncrazy (original)

WARRANTEE ISSUES!

If you were to do the conversion like they said they will not even touch you car. Not even for a SERVICE. If you want to run a car with a LPG conversion but still want speed buy a CORSA VXR 1.6 TURBO its quicker than an S and half the price so when something does go wrong you haven't ruined an £18,000 car.

Just my veiw but when it comes to BMW you can't even swap Alloys without them causing a bit of a fuss.

Joe

Only problem is what would i call my Driving School (see pic)

[Union Jacks]

Quote: Originally Posted by Fin (original)

A MCS as an instructor car? That would be awesome. I had to learn to drive in a Fiat Punto with a horrible clutch.

Although, the insurance must be incredible surely!?

it'll be £1000 to insure for instruction - my MINI D was only £340
i guess cos ive got duals

[Union Jacks]

Quote: Originally Posted by minicabrio (original)

One thing on the turbo engine is the fuel rail operates at a very high pressure compared with the normally aspirated versions, hence the slight diesel-like ticking noise the turbo S engine can give.

In principle there shouldn't be any problem to convert a turbo engine to LPG. In fact it can even be better due to the high octane number of LPG, preventing engine knock when running higher boost levels. In practice though, I'm not sure how the LPG would affect various conponents of the engine such as valves etc...

Worth checking to see what kind of warranty the company carrying out the conversion will give, and whether or not it covers damage to the engine.

I passed the MINI Email onto the LPG Guys at Greenfuels and here's the reply:-

Thanks for the email,
Firstly I would disagree that the vehicle requires massive modification, the BRC equipment will match the power and performance so there will be no noticiable difference in how the car feels or sounds driving on LPG, if anything driving on gas is smoother and quieter so I don’t know what MINI standards would be lost. The equipment has its own ECU fitted, its own injectors, its own tank, it uses the exhaust etc but doesn’t require what I would term a 'massive' modification. An LPG system can be completely removed from a vehicle.
With regards to lubrication, This is correct, LPG doesn't have the lubrication. It is not necessary for all vehicles to have lubrication added. Japanese vehicles are common candidates to have a lubrication system if you go back to our website and produce a quote for a Nissan or Toyota for example, the quote would say that the system being installed is BRC Sequent + Flashlube. Flashlube is a lubrication system to overcome the highlighted issue. Its not something we regard necessary for your engine. As this falls under our warranty it would be within our interests to add this if we thought it was required. It can be added if you would like however.
I would say that the point of the car being heavier is negligible, you wont be driving around with a full tank of petrol and you also wont have the weight of the spare wheel.
Speaking to our engineer, he belives that this model now uses a Peugeot 207 GTi engine. In France (like every other country in EU are way ahead of UK in terms using LPG) this vehicle comes off the production line with an LPG installation so I would suggest the engine is built to drive on LPG! Further to this Germany are the fastest growing country in terms of converting to LPG, BMW actually developed a 3 series on LPG, called the Schnitzer, which holds a record for reaching 197mph on LPG so BMW are very much involved in area.
The vehicle can easily be serviced as normal, you will just require to have the LPG system serviced seperately. The fact that they do not recommend the conversion is irrelevant the law is clear, if they cant prove that the LPG system has caused an issue they must honour the warranty. I would ask them to clearly state their position.
For whatever reason most manufacturers will try to put people off doing this, mainly due to costs such as having to train their staff in LPG. Also people who are converting do so as an investment which means you are likely to keep the vehicle for longer and wont be buying newer models, ultimately a drop in sales for the manufactures.
At the end of the day its probably wise to read reviews from people who have had conversions done and saved thousands on fuel costs. There are plenty of forums on the website. Hope this helps! any further questions please let me know.
Kind Regards

UK Sales Adviser
The Greenfuel Company
Monkton Combe Garage
Warminster Road
Bath
BA2 7HY

So its sounding quite likely i'll have it done and my servicing will be done at a local German Car Specialist who are already Servicing LPG cars and for only £48.50 per hour instead of £100 per hour at MINI

[kevkbuk]

There's no mention of an LPG 207 Gti on the Peugeot France website.... The model lineup looks the same as in the UK.

IMO your giving your dealer a get out of jail free card if the car has any engine related problems. I'd only go for it if you can return the car to stock without any sign of the installation being done, which is probably unlikely.

Have you considered a Dooper?

Sorry to sound negative but I don't see the point of getting an S for learner car, if I had learnt to drive in one I'd have been gutted when I passed my test cos I wouldn't have been able to afford one for myself or the insurance! It'd be awful moving from a Cooper S to say a 1 litre Corsa.....

Then there's the boy racers and old grannies learning to drive in something that does 0-60 in 7 seconds...

[robegee]

Quote: Originally Posted by kevkbuk (original)

There's no mention of an LPG 207 Gti on the Peugeot France website.... The model lineup looks the same as in the UK.

IMO your giving your dealer a get out of jail free card if the car has any engine related problems. I'd only go for it if you can return the car to stock without any sign of the installation being done, which is probably unlikely.

Have you considered a Dooper?

Sorry to sound negative but I don't see the point of getting an S for learner car, if I had learnt to drive in one I'd have been gutted when I passed my test cos I wouldn't have been able to afford one for myself or the insurance! It'd be awful moving from a Cooper S to say a 1 litre Corsa.....

Then there's the boy racers and old grannies learning to drive in something that does 0-60 in 7 seconds...

Yes I understand your point with the Dooper - however just like my MINI D there a pain driving at slow speeds as they push you along - as many of my pupils have found out coming upto the ends of roads and not being able to stop - the petrols slow down loads more and there's no engine push!

Also 52pence is slit better than £1.16 per liter when my last years fuel bill was £3500!

And a CooperS is only fast went u want it to be - I will have dual controls you know ;-)

[RVW]

Quote: Originally Posted by Union Jacks (original)

Only problem is what would i call my Driving School (see pic)

How about Corsa-you-can

[Minnie Mouse]

I can offer this advice.....a friend got a new Mitsubishi Outlander and decided to get it converted to LPG. It was sent off to Wales and got converted so she was able to have half a tank of petrol and then a tank of LPG. It also meant she lost a fair bit of boot space for the LPG tank.
A neighbour also had a van converted to LPG about 18 months ago.

Both of these people have had nothing but trouble with the conversions! The Outlander is now 5 years old and she is still having problems with it and that was with Mitsubishi getting the converstion done for her as part of the deal. She has even got the warranty extended due to the amount of time the car has been off the road while it gets sorted out!

Do lots of research before you decide what to do!

[Union Jacks]

ok so i'm picking up my R56 MCS onTuesday and i'm taking it to a local LPG Specialist for a looksee - £1500 and 4days will see it done

SO I'LL KEEP YOU ALL POSTED - FINGERS CROSSED!