IDLEometer

[genik]

so how can we know for sure that the Autostart button is worthy in an average amount of time?
still id like to know when using it is if im saving fuel, other wise why use it?

also why isnt the initial starup fuel consumption consistent?

and finally... what do you do for living?

thanx for the scientological approach

[Czar]

Quote: Originally Posted by genik (original)

so how can we know for sure that the Autostart button is worthy in an average amount of time?
still id like to know when using it is if im saving fuel, other wise why use it?

also why isnt the initial starup fuel consumption consistent?

and finally... what do you do for living?

thanx for the scientological approach

What is an average amount of time ?

If your engine is off, then obviously your saving fuel !!!

The initial start up fuel consumption will vary from the effects of many different parameters; ambient temperature, engine temperature, air intake pressure/temperature, cylinder compression, spark suppression, clogged injector hole (of which there are 7 per injector), weak fuel pressure delivery, etc etc etc.

And with all that said, the difference between start up fuel consumption and idle fuel consumption, will be so small, it realistically isn't worth worrying about, I've already informed you of the consumption per second at 800 RPM idle, and this figure will never be consistent either, the engine will vary the injected amount to take into account engine load, coolant fan starting up, air conditioning pump switch on, voltage draw from running accessories, heater blower, wipers, lights, turning of the steering ever so slightly, all will upset the idle fuel delivery.

The only time the initial start will consume more than idle, is from cold, when the injectors load up to supply more fuel until value X temperature is reached, and they receive a signal X and settle down to normal pulse delivery charge amount (like the old fashioned choke!)

As for me, well, I'm a professional race engineer of 27 years working experience, and growing up in and around the racing industry.

[genik]

Quote: Originally Posted by Czar (original)

What is an average amount of time?

well something like the average reading of the lt/100km fuel consumpion

Quote: Originally Posted by Czar (original)

The initial start up fuel consumption will vary from the effects of many different parameters; ambient temperature, engine temperature, air intake pressure/temperature, cylinder compression, spark suppression, clogged injector hole (of which there are 7 per injector), weak fuel pressure delivery, etc etc etc.

engine temperature,air intake temp-pressure, cylinder compression, spark suppression, clogged inj. hole, fuel pressure delivery bla bla bla, i believe that are parameters that cannot have big variations, therefore wouldnt temper the reading, especially when the driver and the way of driving is the same... am i right?

Quote: Originally Posted by Czar (original)

As for me, well, I'm a professional race engineer of 27 years working experience, and growing up in and around the racing industry.

wow

[Czar]

Quote: Originally Posted by genik (original)

engine temperature,air intake temp-pressure, cylinder compression, spark suppression, clogged inj. hole, fuel pressure delivery bla bla bla, i believe that are parameters that cannot have big variations, therefore wouldnt temper the reading, especially when the driver and the way of driving is the same... am i right?

You obviously have no conception as to the basic fundamental operation of the internal combustion engine, regardless of your driving style, the engine fluctuations will always happen, with any of the examples I gave, and more besides, and this will always alter fuel consumption parameters.

Next time your in your car, just watch the rev counter needle, it will always fluctuate, then turn on your air conditioning (if you have it) and watch the needle, and listen to the engine idle note change, as the ECU adapts the fuel load to compensate!

Now isn't it about time you stopped looking for a perfect scenario to your obsession with fuel consumption over time idling and engine start, I have supplied you with all the answers necessary, you will just have to accept that in reality, you are never ever going to get a consistent fuel consumption reading, no 2 days will ever be the same, fact.

[genik]

Quote: Originally Posted by Czar (original)

You obviously have no conception as to the basic fundamental operation

first of all thank you for beeing so polite in your explanation

still even if there are differences and the engine does not offer consistent results that will only be a problem if the results of each different day are huge, so the point is how big those different settings are between those 2 or more days as you said, so do you have some numbers that indicate sutch big differences that would abandone the try to make result avegrages? if there arend BIG differences then its not a problem to have an average of all those ups and down the engine can create!

anyhow, all the settings provided by the trip computer in fuel consumption are not absolute they are averages, so why have a problem with an average for the AutoStartStop button consumption? no need to be absolute, i think it be great to see every time you use this ASSbutton how mutch fuel u did not waste by having the car to idle!

[dr_dick]

Quote: Originally Posted by Czar (original)

You've bought yourself a sporty car! your now fuel conscious ? ... Just get in your car and bloody well enjoy it! If fuel is that much of an issue to you, get a more economical car and be done.

Agreed! Maybe the Toyota? hehe

[genik]

oh and Czar, the Toyota iQ does have such an option as the Idleometer im describing (drdick thanx for reminding me )

[Czar]

Quote: Originally Posted by genik (original)

first of all thank you for beeing so polite in your explanation

still even if there are differences and the engine does not offer consistent results that will only be a problem if the results of each different day are huge, so the point is how big those different settings are between those 2 or more days as you said, so do you have some numbers that indicate sutch big differences that would abandone the try to make result avegrages? if there arend BIG differences then its not a problem to have an average of all those ups and down the engine can create!

anyhow, all the settings provided by the trip computer in fuel consumption are not absolute they are averages, so why have a problem with an average for the AutoStartStop button consumption? no need to be absolute, i think it be great to see every time you use this ASSbutton how mutch fuel u did not waste by having the car to idle!

Genik, I do not have a problem with you or anyone else for that matter, nor do I have a problem with anyone, who is a little fuel conscious, however I in my 27 years have never ever known anyone who is so fuel conscious, that they are concerned with the differences between, start up fuel consumption, and idling fuel consumption, or with day to day average running fuel consumption.

When you or anyone purchases a car, then the choice will have many factors in the final conclusion, that said, when a sporty or high performance car is chosen, then the fuel consumption, should be the least of those conclusion factors!

I give the same advice to friends/family and anyone willing to listen and take my advice, if you've to ask how much or what will it do to the gallon, then you can't afford it, nor can you afford to fuel it, and enjoy it for what it will offer in terms of performance!

Performance costs.

[genik]

i know what the car consumes when driven fast or not, thats not my point, nor is my point to consume as less as possible, my point is whether or not is worth using the AutoStartStop button for fuel consumption or not and if the answer is yes... then where is the thin line that seperates worth/worthless, i mean if im in traffic and i start and stop every 5secs should i be using it? there is where the startup engine fuel consumption matter appears... i cant explain better, i think the only person that gets my point is dr_dick (where are you my explanation saviour to help me out explain better? )

and Czar, i know performance costs (although the last few years things are leaning towards the other way) but thats not my issue, u think i bought a car that i hadnt checked out this matter?

[Czar]

Quote: Originally Posted by genik (original)

i know what the car consumes when driven fast or not, thats not my point, nor is my point to consume as less as possible, my point is whether or not is worth using the AutoStartStop button for fuel consumption or not and if the answer is yes... then where is the thin line that seperates worth/worthless, i mean if im in traffic and i start and stop every 5secs should i be using it? there is where the startup engine fuel consumption matter appears... i cant explain better, i think the only person that gets my point is dr_dick (where are you my explanation saviour to help me out explain better? )

and Czar, i know performance costs (although the last few years things are leaning towards the other way) but thats not my issue, u think i bought a car that i hadnt checked out this matter?

As you are fully aware what the fuel consumption is per second at idle 800 RPM and you know that the initial (working temperature) starting consumption is slightly less than this, then it doesn't take a genius to work out, when to use ASS!

Example: 30 seconds of idling will consume more than 1 initial (working temperature) start............yes!

[genik]

Quote: Originally Posted by Czar (original)

As you are fully aware what the fuel consumption is per second at idle 800 RPM and you know that the initial (working temperature) starting consumption is slightly less than this, then it doesn't take a genius to work out, when to use ASS!

Example: 30 seconds of idling will consume more than 1 initial (working temperature) start............yes!

i think that this 30 seconds doesnt seem right, i dont think BMW has made the 1st start up so costly. i mean how often would one have his car idle for 30seconds in traffic/normal routine day driving?

[Czar]

WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND, I have previously given you the fuel consumption for every second of idling at the idle engine speed of 800 RPM, I have also informed you that the working temperature start up fuel consumption is less than 1 seconds worth of fuel consumption at 800 RPM engine idle!

So for any amount of time over 1 second, your engine spends idling, it consumes more fuel than if you were to start it from a working temperature, WHAT IS SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT

And lastly my statement about 30 seconds worth of idling is just an example, IT IN KNOW WAY REPRESENTS THE AMOUNT OF FUEL CONSUMED IN 30 SECONDS, IS EQUIVALENT TO A WORKING TEMPERATURE START UP.

And if you can't understand any of this, in this thread to which I have contributed, then there is no hope for you my friend.

[genik]

1. whats with the caps?
2. English is not my native language so dont be so upset if i may not understand things you explain
3. thanx for your contribution
4. how did you measure/find out all the above you explained? (just curious)

so ill be saving fuel if i have the engine stopped for 3sec and then starting it up, rather than having it idle working for the same amount of time (3secs) am i corect?

[Czar]

Quote: Originally Posted by genik (original)

1. whats with the caps?
2. English is not my native language so dont be so upset if i may not understand things you explain
3. thanx for your contribution
4. how did you measure/find out all the above you explained? (just curious)

The capital letters are to make you aware of how loudly I am trying to explain things to you.

As English is quite evidently not your native tongue, then maybe you have a friend who can interpret English language for you!

It's my job to work out calculations and to know and understand how things work, as I have previously informed you, I have been a race engineer for 27 years, and so I have access to lots and lots of technical data of which is not for general public release, and with this data and my knowledge of how to apply mathematical formulas, I am able to work out whatever is necessary.

So 1 last time to try to and explain it clearly for you:

1 seconds worth of working temperate idle at 800 RPM = 0.112 Grams of fuel consumed.

A working temperature engine start will consume LESS than 0.112 Grams.

So if you want to save fuel, use the ASS.