Mini Cooper LPG Conversion

[MartinH32]

Thought you may all be interested in some work I have just had done to my new Mini.
I have a daily commute of 230 miles (round trip) so the price of fuel for me is obviously too much. So, once I made the decision to get a Mini (and glad I did ) I decided to get an LPG conversion to cut my fuel costs in half.

Here is how it all worked:

Found an LPG Association approved installer in my area and took the car along to have a chat with him to see if a conversion was possible.

The price came to £1450 for the conversion and the installer had my car for four days to undertake the work.

As you can imagine, the Mini is quite compact anyway so we had discussions on what the work would be, size of gas tank etc.

In the end I settled for a 60l tank. This basically fills the boot space, but the choice was mine and it means I only need to fill up every two days on my commute to work. Smaller tanks are obviously available.

Well I got the car back last weekend and to be honest it wasn't running properly. It spluttered and had more flat spots than Norfolk. I took it back today for a retune and it has come back like a new car. I will report back on this, but for the moment, everything is good and you don't notice the switch from unleaded to LPG as it is automatic. As of getting the car back today I haven't noticed any drop in performance.

A few things to note on all this.
1. My car is on a PCP. However, I did tell the dealer that I intended to convert the car to run on LPG and confirmed that my warranty, service and recovery service would not be void . However, parts contained in the LPG conversion would not be covered, nor would any fault which has been caused by the conversion, which is understandable. This wasn't really a problem as the installer has put a two year warranty on the conversion.

2. If I dedcided to give the car back at the end of the PCP it must be 'as new' (not the case for part ex, or balloon purchase). In other words, I need to remove the conversion. Obviously a fuel tank gauge needed fitting to the dashboard, so this has had to be done in such a way that it could be removed without marking the car interior. Also, I have had the fuel filler put on the bumper, as if needed, this can be replaced, unlike a rear quarter panel.

In all, looking at the costs associated with this, I will save over £2000 during the time I have the car. So for me, this was worth doing.

You do need to tell the DVLA and inform your insurance company (which cost me £12).



It is drab dark and miserable outside at the moment, but I will at the end of the week post some pictures of the conversion. Attached is one of the car before the work.

Any questions, just ask!!

[MartinH32]

Just an update.

It's running ok, but the engine management light popped on once (solid yellow) whilst driving last night.
However, came to the car this morning and it has gone off again. Not sure why as yet!

[FergusM]

Why did you not just get a Diesel Cooper ?

And that is a monster amount of mileage to put on each day !

[MartinH32]

To be honest, I have had a deisel previously (not Mini though) and weighing everything up, it still works out (only marginally) cheaper to run on LPG. I have to admit, when I got the car back and it was spluttering, that thought did cross my mind!

I also have a car allowance from work and I will gain on any mileage I do for the company

[humph]

Quote: Originally Posted by MartinH32 (original)

Just an update.

It's running ok, but the engine management light popped on once (solid yellow) whilst driving last night.
However, came to the car this morning and it has gone off again. Not sure why as yet!

Having run three LPG cars in the past, when diesels were stil slow (2000-2004), I have to say I really loved them. Have never really been tempted to convert my MINI though as you lose too much of the storage space. In my previous cars all I lost was the spare wheel well.

Sounds like you got a good price for the conversion. last one I paid for was £2250 minus £1100 government grant which was the going rate pretty much at the time. Was by far the best conversion I had. LPG is good but don't think i'd bother again as diesel technology has come so far recently, unless of course I buy a thirsty classic car.

Anyway too my point the engine management light. I had a gas converted Focus that would run fine with no lights first thing in the morning but if you turned her off briefly and then started your journey again the management light would come on. Would reset over night. Apparently the engine was sensing low emissions and assuming things were going wrong so put the light on. What it needed was an inhibitor on the light ,or on an O2 sensor, to stop the car thinking there was a problem. Company I worked for never put that right so spent two years with that damn light on.

Happy motoring.

[MartinH32]

Thanks for your reply - I shall mention it to the garage.
The storage space isn't an issue for me (just as well really). I purchased the Mini because I wanted a mini (s*d the practicality).
As long as the light isn't doing the car any harm, I won't panic (although I will get it fixed).
Looking at the manual it does say it is to do with the emmisions (solid yellow engine light).
Doesn't happen all the time just the occasional change over to LPG.

[NeuroBeaker]

So... your car runs on both Petrol and Propane? So one petrol tank and one propane tank, both of which can be topped up simultaneously?

Does this mean that really, you've got a range of:

• LPG: 2 X 230 miles = 460
• Petrol: ~340 miles
• Total range: ~800 miles?!

That's pretty amazing actually! Does it sound any different running on LPG? Also, you said you haven't noticed a change in performance - what's your driving style like on the following scale?

1. Calm, low revs, everything nice and easy... slow and steady gets there alive.
2. Moderately enthusiastic, mid-revs often used, occasionally overtake.
3. Usually in high revs, tending to push hard when the opportunity to do it sanely arises.
4. Out of my way, I'm the next Michael Schumacher! Zzzzzzzzooooooooooooommmm!!!!

[MartinH32]

Ha,

I think you would need to put me down as a number '2'

It does have two tanks. It's great seeing the range computer not move after 100 miles of motorway driving.

Basically the car starts on unleaded and once warm switches over to LPG. It can be manually switched off if required.

I generally have around 1/4 tank of unleaded and no more!

As for noise, it makes no difference as far as I can tell.

[humph]

As Martin says the car will start on petrol and automatically switch to LPG when the engine reaches a set temp. There is a switch that allows you to turn the LPG off should you wish to run on petrol.

Yes in theory you could have a full tank of each and get a great range However LPG gives you less to the gallon. My Rover did 38mpg on petrol but 30mpg on gas, a 50 litre tank would do about 300 miles, so more regular fill ups. Also keep both tanks full is only adding weight, thus effecting performance. They advise keeping about a 1/4 - 1/3 of a tank of petrol in the car.

On the performance topic the engine still runs the same, and will give out the same bhp etc. The problem, if you see it as one, is weight. The gas system, especially the tank is heavy. The advice has always been to go one engine size up from the one you would normally have chosen if you intend to convert to lpg. I will say that none of my lpg cars have ever been slow or sluggish after the conversion, not really noticable really.

Only real differences are lack of boot space, only really an issue if the car has no spare wheel well, and cheaper fuel bills

A clubman would be good to convert as the tank could go under the "flat load floor" without really losing storage space.

[NeuroBeaker]

Thanks for the explanation guys - that's all really quiet interesting stuff!

Not sure I'll be heading down to my local conversion centre just yet - but it's pretty cool stuff.

[Union Jacks]

Hi there - i'm looking at Converting a brand new Cooper S to LPG for Driving Instructing.

Can you help me out with abit of info please?

1. Was it an Authorised MINI Dealership who said that your warranty wouldn't be void?
2. Who was the LPG Company? Autogas 2000? Greenfuels?
3. Have you worked out your MPG?
4. Does the LPG Warranty cover Petrol Valve or Cat problems if their deemed as LPG Faults?

cheers if you can answer any of the above

i'm also going to "POST" below a letter i had back from MINI UK about why they don't want their MINI LPG'd ;-p

[Union Jacks]

Thank you for your email to MINI Customer Information.

We can confirm that MINI do not recommend and therefore do not offer conversions of our vehicles to run on LPG. This is for a number of reasons, as listed below:
• MINI petrol engines are designed for petrol fuel (liquid fuel). The use of other fuels requires massive modifications to maintain MINI standards
• At high engine loads using gas it is possible that thermal damage will occur around the valves since gas does not offer a lubrication effect. Petrol contains additives for this purpose
• MINI have reservations relating to the thermal stresses placed on exhaust components. Such high temperatures occur when gas is used as a fuel and the engine is working at full capacity that the catalytic converter may be damaged and as a result the engine will be unable to comply with emission limits
• The homologation for bivalent operation can cause problems since all OBD requirements must be satisfied. In addition, the technical integration for switching between the two fuels is very complicated
• The car becomes heavier (tanks) and the boot space is reduced in cars that do not have a spare wheel trough
As such if you were to carry out an LPG conversion on your vehicle, this would have an affect on your warranty and any service and maintenance pack, as MINI dealerships are not qualified to service and maintain converted vehicles and therefore would be unable to do so.
Neither a MINI dealership nor MINI can be held responsible for modifications to the vehicle that lead to defects.
We are sorry that we have been unable to offer a more positive response on this occasion.

Yours sincerely

MINI UK
Product Information Advisor
Ellesfield Avenue
Bracknell RG12 8TA

[MartinH32]

Quote: Originally Posted by Union Jacks (original)

Hi there - i'm looking at Converting a brand new Cooper S to LPG for Driving Instructing.

Can you help me out with abit of info please?

1. Was it an Authorised MINI Dealership who said that your warranty wouldn't be void?
2. Who was the LPG Company? Autogas 2000? Greenfuels?
3. Have you worked out your MPG?
4. Does the LPG Warranty cover Petrol Valve or Cat problems if their deemed as LPG Faults?

cheers if you can answer any of the above

i'm also going to "POST" below a letter i had back from MINI UK about why they don't want their MINI LPG'd ;-p

Hi,
In answer to your questions:

1. When I purchased the car from the dealership they said anything wrong relating to the conversion would not be covered by the warranty. Everything else would be.
2. I used a local LPGA ceritfied company to carry out the conversion. This is an absolute must. In addition, you need to speak to people who have had the conversion carried out by the company you are intending to use. Several different systems exist. The best are Prins, Romano and BRC. I have a Romano system fitted. Make sure you do your research.
3. I have worked out my MPG to be 35MPG. Which means as the price is half what unleaded is, equates to around 70mpg in monetary terns.
4. No neither of these are covered. However to be realistic, I have not known of a car which has had cat problems since being converted. The fuel is cleaner running. As for valve seats. Only certain engines are effected by this. Mainly engines with soft valve seats. The liquid fuel lubricates these. Gas doesn't and it burns slightly hotter also. I was informed by several installers that BMW engines do not have this problem. If you are worried, a product called flashlube can be injected at the same time as the gas which provides this lubrication.

In additon, Mini will not service the LPG parts but I was informed by the dealership (sales and service) that my TLC would still be covered.
I would think twice before having the conversion done and think if after the cost of the conversion (roughly £1500) if you will recoup this in fuel savings. I know I will as I travel 40000 miles a year.
I have now done over 10000 miles on LPG since conversion. I cannot, however say this was trouble free as it took the conversion specialist a number of times to tune it correctly. Saying that, it's running fine now.

Before you convert look into the following:
1. Will you insurance company cover an LPG converted car? - Most do for no additional premium.
2. If you get GAP insurance check they will cover this. One phone call and this was sorted.
3. Recovery - I'm not sure Mini would help if the car had a breakdown caused by this. I found cheap (£35 per annum) cover that would.
4. Warranty - I went to warranty direct and although they wont cover the conversion (you converter will with a 12 - 24 month warranty) they will cover anything that has been caused by the conversion.
5. I no longer have a boot - which I'm not too bothered about.

I'm not trying to be negative about all this, just honest!!! After conversion costs I will save around £3000 over the next couple of years

Hope this lot helps.
Anymore, just ask.

[mrbasstrombone]

Hi, do you still run your Mini on LPG? If so, how many miles have you done and what are your experiences? I have been running cars on LPG for 25 years and have seen a converted Cooper 1.6 but am a little wary.. Thanks!

[MartinH32]

Hi,

No the conversion was pulled out.
I had a smell of LPG that I could not get rid of.
Four different LPG garages could not find the leak and insisted it was my imagination.

Strangely enough, after removing the conversion, the smell went away.

When I originally had the conversion done and I got over the teething problems I thought I was on to a winner.
How wrong I was.
Never again!!!!!