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Which Cooper, and which suspension (stock/koni ? ), for ride quality? (forum c2)

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#1 · (Edited)
Which Cooper, and which suspension (stock/koni … ), for ride quality? (forum c2)

I’ve just posted the below post – which is about differences between Coopers and Cooper S’s, generations 1 and 2, in several sub forums ... [EDIT: and the most complete discussion so far is in this sub forum]

I’m in the market for a Cooper hatchback. Every cooper I’ve ever tried has too harsh a ride, so my initial guess is I should go for the 2nd generation, base Cooper (not the Cooper S) with 15” wheels and without runflats. But I would rather like something faster. And I prefer the 1st generation. So I started looking on the forum, and learned that (1) Koni FSDs are a big improvement, (2) the JCW suspension is actually softer than the normal suspension because it’s designed for big wheels, so if I use smaller wheels … , but (3) the 2nd generation Cooper S cannot use 15” wheels. Mostly good, but it leaves me with some questions:

Cooper vs Cooper S, and gen 1 vs gen 2: If one uses the FSD dampers and 16” wheels on all four of these cars, does one end up with the same ride quality, or do the S’s and/or gen 1 cars have stiffer springs or other components?

And how would the gen 2 Cooper S on 16s compare to the others on 15s?

What about the JCWs on the smallest possible wheels? How would the gen 1 JCW (on 16s) and the gen 2 JCW (on 17s) compare to the above?

(I know that the gen 2 cars were available with optional sport suspensions. In this case (and in all other cases) I am of course only interested in the cars with the least stiff option. P.S. I know there was a sport suspension + (“SS+”) option. Were there 2 other choices (normal and sport suspension (“SS”)) or just one?)

Thanks for any insight into this!!!​
 
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#2 ·
This could open a can of worms. I will give my experience but there are others who completely disagree with my opinions on wheel sizes. I had a 2003 R53 Cooper S on 17's and runflats. The ride was hard. I was given a loan Mini with 15 inch wheels and I was surprised it was hardly any better. I junked the runflats and went for a slightly bigger size tyre 215/45. This was a big improvement. I then went for Koni FSD's and this was better again. I was satisfied with the ride quality and handling now. I then bought a R56 Cooper S in 2010. It was as slightly softer on 16's with non-runflats. I tried my old 17's and there was very little difference. I had Koni FSD's fitted early and these made the ride slightly better and tightened up the handling at speed. I now run 18's with 215/40 in the summer and 17's with 215/45 in the winter. I think the ride comfort even on the 18's is good for a small car. Just one opinion though and I am old so remember when fast cars needed 2000 rpm and careful clutch release just to pull away. The carbs, preferable a bank of them, needed adjusting every 6 months and the suspension felt like it was welded solid. Modern cars like the Mini are amazing in comparison.
 
#6 ·
... I junked the runflats and went for a slightly bigger size tyre 215/45. ...
One more follow-up question: Do you think the bigger tyre size contributed much to the ride quality?

(The stock 17" tyre is 205/45, so the new 17" size had 4,5mm more sidewall, whereas going to 16s provides 15mm more. On the other hand, perhaps with the wider tyre the correct pressure is lower? And I think the relation between wheel width (not diameter like 17, but width, like 7) and tyre width has some influence on sidewall flex - though I would think stock wheel/tyre combinations would usually be close to max flex.)
 
#3 ·
Thanks, this is very helpful!

So to be sure I understand correctly, the R56 Cooper S on 16s was softer than the '03 R53 Cooper S with FSDs on 17s?.

And switching the R56 to 17s made little difference - so even when both cars are on 17s the R56 Cooper S would be softer than the '03 R53 with FSDs?

If so, then I should remove the R53 Cooper S from my list. But there's still the question how the R56 Cooper S compares with the R56 Cooper. If the ride quality is almost the same when both have FSDs, then my decision is easy. If not ... .
 
#12 ·
So to be sure I understand correctly, the R56 Cooper S on 16s was softer than the '03 R53 Cooper S with FSDs on 17s?.

And switching the R56 to 17s made little difference - so even when both cars are on 17s the R56 Cooper S would be softer than the '03 R53 with FSDs?

If so, then I should remove the R53 Cooper S from my list. But there's still the question how the R56 Cooper S compares with the R56 Cooper. If the ride quality is almost the same when both have FSDs, then my decision is easy. If not ... .
Yes the R56 S with 16 or 17s was softer than the R53 S with FSDs and 17s. Be careful reading about the R53 S. Mine was a 2003 and they had softened the suspension by then and I found it acceptable once the runflats where dumped. The original 2002 S had much stiffer suspension and few people liked it with 17s and runflats. The few who liked it loved it though! Never driven a R56 Cooper so can't comment on that.
 
#4 ·
About the wheel sizes, could it be that this makes little difference with runflats, but a bigger difference with non-runflats? (Do you know if the 15s you sampled were runflats?) (I can imagine that to enable the car to run on a flat tyre with a big sidewall, the 15" runflats would need a particularly big increase in stiffness versus normal tyres, whereas the larger sizes would only need to be slightly stiffer, as the larger non-runflats are already stiff.)
 
#5 ·
I think if you want ride comfort, then it is sports suspension that you need to avoid - and particularly the combination of sport suspension, 17" wheels and runflats which is like the perfect storm.

But it's likely that any Cooper S you find has sports suspension.

I didn't find runflats and non-runflats very different on 16" wheels. Best of all is 15" wheels and standard suspension.
 
#8 ·
I didn't find runflats and non-runflats very different on 16" wheels. Best of all is 15" wheels and standard suspension.
I'm guessing one reason differences in opinion about the impact of runflats is that they've gotten better since the Mini was first launched, so people who've compared them most recently will see the smallest difference. It also must depend on which brand & model runflat & non-runflat. Still, it's normal tyres for me ...
 
#14 ·
I think the only MINI suspension which could be characterized as "harsh" is on those models built prior to May 2003 when they changed the oil viscosity and valve structure of the shock absorbers.

Sport Suspension Plus was only available on 1st Gen models. I believe this was standard equipment on US MCS models and in the UK SS+ became an option on later MCS models.

JCW Sport Suspension on 1st and 2nd Gen cars was a dealer fit accessory and looking for a car with this suspension will limit your choices.

Suspension should NOT be your first consideration in which model to select.
 
#15 ·
Thanks for the insight! Just to clarify, I will not look for the JCW suspension on a MC or MCS. But if the JCW suspension would work well on a JCW with the smallest possible wheels, I might consider buying a JCW.

And suspension probably should not be the first consideration for most people, but alas, for me, it has to be. I've driven too many MCs with suspensions that just don't work for me.
 
#17 ·
I've driven several first generation cars, including Coopers and Cooper S's. I may also have driven a first generation base model "One?". The first two were Cooper S's. After concluding that Cooper S's were much too stiff, I tried other models. I don't remember the wheel sizes (this was a while ago), except that none had 15s. Except that I specifically tried one final base Cooper just because it had 15" snow tyres, and the ride still was far from what I could accept. I'm now trying to find out whether it's pre or post-2003, and whether it had an optional sports suspension.

My 2nd generation experience isn't really relevant because they were not the models I'm interested in buying, and this was on vacation, on very different roads. Local 2nd generation Coopers all tend to have 17" wheels. And given that journalists continue to complain about Mini ride quality (though less so), I'm pretty sure that without smaller wheels and FSDs I won't like them. And even if I could arrange a back-to-back comparison between over-tyred R53s and R56s, it wouldn't tell me how they'd compare on FSDs ...
 
#19 ·
Here's what I've learned so far, after reading through again and checking things like standard spec's and options.

Listed from stiffest to most comfortable with the same size wheels:

Original R53 MCS > facelifted R53 MCS =* R53 JCW > R56 MCS** >*** R56 MC

And the order is the same if you switch them all to FSDs.

*My conclusion from the previous 2 posts
**Without the optional sport suspension
***MCS is probably just a bit stiffer (10mm lower springs) than MC on same wheels, but unlike the rest, can't use 15s.

There is still the question of the R56 JCW, which some report is softer than the MCS on the same wheels.

But the big outstanding question is, where does the R50 MC fit in (without the optional SS+ suspension)?
 
#21 ·
MCS is probably just a bit stiffer (10mm lower springs) than MC on same wheels, but unlike the rest, can't use 15s.

There is still the question of the R56 JCW, which some report is softer than the MCS on the same wheels.

But the big outstanding question is, where does the R50 MC fit in (without the optional SS+ suspension)?
The only OEM suspension that lowers ride height by 10mm is the JCW Sport Suspension.

You can fit 15" wheels on a 1st Gen MCS with standard brakes because they're the same size on all models.

Softer implies more body roll so why would a higher performance model like the JCW have softer suspension than lesser models?

With each MINI Generation the ride has gotten softer as the suspension has been "dumbed down" so the car appeals more to the masses.

My mechanic told me that the shocks used by MINI are of marginal quality and don't last too many miles before you're riding on just springs. So get the MINI that performs best for you and have some Koni FSDs fitted.
 
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