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electrical weirdness

3K views 20 replies 4 participants last post by  lipwak 
#1 ·
Hi,

Last night for the second time (the first was on 3/9/17) some of the lights on all the instrument panels went out. The first time the radio didn't work either. Last night the radio worked. I could see the speedometer on the tachometer and the mileage in those two sections but not the tachometer. I could use the radio and it was lit up. I could see the temperature but nothing else in that panel. Also, I could manually use my brights but they wouldn't stay on by themselves. (The headlights and turn signals worked. I assume the tail lights worked.)

The first time it happened it corrected itself the next day, all was well. I started it up today and couldn't tell if it had fixed itself but the idiot lights did flash on and off at startup as is normal.

The last time it happened I looked at and tried to remove the fuses for F5, F9, F21 and F30 which are all related to the instrument panel but they seemed secure and not blown (but I didn't take them out). *

Another possibly-related problem that's been happening alot, one of the running lights/fog lights (left front) has been not working alot. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

I don't trust the dealer that sold me the car to do any repairs but might trust other dealers to do honest repair work or might take it to shop that works on Minis. But first, if it's a matter of replacing a fuse, I'm game to try that (or control module, if I can do that.)

One other concern are the control modules. I don't remember if I can replace those myself but it would be worth it if that fixes it.

What would you recommend?

* I figured out the fuses from a post somewhere on the net where someone had taken a picture of the icons on the fuse box and also a post that listed them all. I am not sure it is for my exact model (2011 hardtop) though... I can post those pics and my copy of the list if that would be helpful.

Cheers and thanks.

John
 
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#2 ·
bcm module ie body control module, first off check it for water ingress also the multi plugs to it, i normally spray them with switch cleaner then wd40 if this dont change what its doing then it gets expensive, bcm's are programmed to the individual cars needs and specs ie some have spot lights some dont some have cruise some dont etc etc the bcm controls all this and links all the other interfaces together, like main ecu abs ecu airbag ecu gearbox ecu everything that runs on electric it has a hand in almost like its the centre of everything,,
REPAIR Service For BMW MINI R55 R56 FRM Footwell Modules | eBay
the above link is a repair service
worth asking them about bcm repairs
 
#4 ·
would check car for water leaks wet carpet or under the carpets will cause this,
 
#5 ·
Thanks. It turns out this may not be an intermittent problem. i rarely drive this car at night so it is very likely that this has been going for awhile. The lights are still off after testing the past two days (one test at night). (The carpets are dry.)

I have a pic of the fuses chart and think #23 and 29 might be related to the problem. The trouble is, it seems I don't have fuses for those positions, having to count them by hand... My pic is attached. What fuses should I check if not 23 and 29? I don't have a list of what the fuse icons represent. Can anyone provide me with a list of what each fuse controls? Many thanks.
(2011 hardtop/hatchback)

The icon for #29 looks like the tach and also says OBD...
 

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#6 ·
I've ordered a OBDII cable and hope the software I've found will point out the exact problem but until the cable gets here, I may remove each fuse one by one to inspect them, to see if that is the problem. I've read that some are hot even with the key off. Will that cause any trouble if I pull one of those out?

Thanks.
 
#7 ·
what software have you ordered, if not b cables inpa or autocom you will struggle to get anything else to scan on the level you need, as bcm is on the multiplex lan system and will need a dealer level software to work on or read it.
BMW Diagnostic Software and Cable allows full Coding and Diagnostics for your car
the above link is the only option to work with these systems and d-can and k-can switchable level so full option and not the cheaper minimum package that some people sell.
as for removing fuses that wont hurt anything as a rule but when i done my city and guilds it was always said to disconnect the battery but no one ever does, i've not killed off anything yet in 32 years of it
 
#8 ·
Thanks, that looks nice and is good to know about.

The cable I'm getting is a $10 Vgate ELM327 USB OBD2 Car Diagnostic Scanner SI Labs CP2102 Chipset... which I will use with all of the free programs I've found that will work on a Mac (EOBD-Facile, Movi (standard and Pro version) and OBD Auto Doctor). I don't know if any will be useful but they're worth a try. It would be nice to use the cables and software you recommend but I think I'm better off taking to a repair shop if I'm going to spend more money.

One "encouraging" note. I read somewhere that the batter may be at fault. It's the original battery from 2011. The post said a cell may be bad. It may be worth it for me to get a new battery.

Good to know I can disconnect fuses and won't screw things up.

I appreciate your help!
 
#9 ·
2016 LATEST VERSION TCS CDP Pro Plus for Autocom Car and Truck Scanner OBD 2
the above link is what you will need or b cables software plugging cheap untested equipment in to any cars eobd socket and hoping it will be ok is a gamble, then if does hook up not knowing if it could damage any of the cars ecu programs hmmm rather you than me one wrong click car stops working happens a lot with cheap and untested software, and i would be bet it wont do anything you need it to do anyway, good luck with that
 
#10 ·
Thanks for the warning. I'm wary of any of them making any changes and won't be doing that intentionally but am hoping they will at least diagnose well enough to help.

Just bought a new battery. Was hoping it would cure things. It didn't. (Would it take some more time?) Everything is the same. I needed a new battery anyway. The old one was the original one, now 6 years old. It was tested as putting out 317 cca, (was rated at 480). The new one has a 600 cca rating. All my presets were kept so that's good.
 
#11 ·
480 rated just after would of been on charge for 12 hours, try your old battery after a 12hour charge see what the rating is for a better idea. for the battery to be the issue it would need to have a open circuit intermittently ie has nothing no volts. or the cells are so bad the standing voltage of 12.6volts has not been stored at point of turning on the car, the car system will read voltage at if voltage two low it will bring up all kinds of random electrical issues.. the fact still have the issues with new battery it will be either a bad wiring issues or more likely bcm ecu has got wet or corroded or both or has just failed through prolonged vibrations and temperatures, and no cheap entry level diagnostics machine will help you with this problem,, first off reading it ie the bcm has its own codes cant be read by anything other than correct code, then after that replacing the bcm will need to be encoded to car and old file saved to drop on to the exchanged bcm , i only say this because if i repaired cars by throwing parts at it until i have replaced enough it fixes it maybe i would be out for a job and a lot of out of pocket customers who trusted me to do the job correctly, ie diagnose it with correct full level diagnostics and replace the only broken part or parts with guessing and hoping, on a fault like yours its nearly impossible to find and fix it without correct equipment,
 
#12 ·
Good to know. Now to find the bcm and ecu. (Or, are they the same thing?) I saw a pic that the bcm is on the right-hand side on English cars so I assume it is on the left-hand on mine (American). Are both the bcm and the ecu accessable in the same place? I see a pic that has the ecu under the hood...

I will check to see if it/they're ajar. Otherwise I will take it to a shop who can diagnose them. I'll concede I can't though I am still tempted to try to see what those apps can tell me, about other things too.
 
#13 ·
the bcm BODY CONTROL MODULE links all the other ecu's in the car, yes one under the bonnet is main ecu this in mainly engine control but has some shared lines with the bcm, not sure with left hand drive cars location, when these bcm's cause issues most garages farm that kind of fault out to a specialist as i keep saying without special equipment you cant work on it as its mounted to your car with special coding linked to all the other ecu's airbag abs main engine ecu etc
 
#14 ·
One last question, probably.

Will the problem get worse? It's likely that it's been around since March at least and hasn't changed as far as I know. I suppose I can live with it as it is now* but how about if I go on a long trip? I plan to drive about 400 miles up and back to visit my brother in July. I realize there may be no way to predict that. Just curious.

*though I am gearing myself up for having to spend alot of money to get it fixed...

Many thanks for the help. I really appreciate it.
 
#15 ·
i know of cars that have had issues with control that dont effect mot test stuff like lights and horn brake lights etc go for years with no change, then i have seen others over time sort them selves out, then others that fail and lose it all,
maybe put break down cover on the car then at least of does get worse you have a plan b
 
#16 ·
The problem seems to be drastic and could be risky to drive especially at night. If it is still under insurance coverage, why not just send it back to the dealer? Things could really get messy especially when the ECU is concerned. I would not risk any chances of getting caught in a situation whereby the ECU acts up and you have to be stranded in the middle of nowhere with no headlights on. I encountered that before ALONE and it was no joke!
 
#17 ·
UPDATE!!!

I went to the dealer today. Told them about the instrument panel lights. They told me they'd charge me $270 to diagnose it but would wave that if electrical work needed to be done. OK.

They didn't find anything wrong, they said. And your instrument panel lights work.

They do?

And the high beams will stay on.

The service guy went to the car with me, twirled the light setting on the left stalk and voila, the high beams stayed on.

They did say they would replace the foot well panel but they didn't have it in stock right now so I'd have to come back. (I plan to after the 4th of July.)

When they were all done with the rest of the work I had them do (brakes and they found that the oil control solenoid needed needed fixing, which could be untrue but how would I know?), I paid them and was ready to drive away. I noticed that the high beams weren't staying on so I walked back to the rep. We went out to the car again. He twisted the stalk setting again and said that with the Automatic setting during the day, the high beams won't stay on. Hmm.

I couldn't tell if the instrument panel lights were on when I drove off, they appeared to be off (with the Automatic setting - it would take going somewhere dark to get them to come on. OK) but I checked tonight, and voila! The instrument panel lights work! The high beams stay on too!

What's going on?

They didn't charge me to fix anything. They offered to replace the foot well module, great. Did they fix it temporarily and that's why they want me to come back for the foot well module?

More weirdness.

What do you think?

Cheers,

John
 
#18 ·
it's not possible for me to turn off the the instrument panel lights by choosing a setting from the stalk, is it? I can see choosing Automatic affecting if the headlights stay on during the day, which I want, but that or other settings wouldn't affect the instrument panel lights coming on at night, would they? The headlights have been on during the day from day 1, having set them up that way. Is there something going on with the light sensor? (Maybe they replaced that, though they didn't charge me for it, unless they covered it up by charging me for the fabricated oil control solenoid?)

I don't drive much at night, or much at all really. The instrument panel lights have been out at night for several months though, up until tonight...
 
#19 ·
You say you don't drive it often, how long does the car sit idle and what is the condition of your battery ? The battery may have just needed a decent charge as its well known that Mini's don't like a low battery charge condition. If your only driving a short distance and infrequently, your battery will slowly loose charge and would benefit from a 24 hr trickle charge every couple of weeks if its not being driven.
 
#20 ·
It can sit for days without my driving it. I do drive it at least once a week for 2x20 minutes or so and sometimes more. I've made several trips an hour to, and an hour back that end up being at night and the instrument panel lights were dark for them. I replaced the battery a few weeks ago and drove home in the dark after that and the instrument panel lights were dark then too. I'd received that advice earlier so since the battery was 6 years old, I replaced it. I can dig up the chart they gave me that showed how much charge was on the old battery when they replaced it.
 
#21 ·
The solution was pointed out to me by a service guy at the Mini dealer. It IS controlled by the position of the setting on the left-hand stalk. If the headlights are turned off, the instrument panel lights go off too. If the setting is in any other position, they come on when the sensor thinks it is dark enough. (I have mine set at Automatic, daylight running lights so I must have accidentally moved it, causing the instrument panel lights to go out and all this trouble...)

I'm glad this was pointed out to me. It wasn't last time. The guy just turned the switch and didn't tell me why they worked.

So, all is well. While there is a recall on the footwell control module it looks like I don't need to worry about that now.

I'm surprised no one got that here. The manual isn't any help either... Does anyone know of a good book that explains Minis of my year well? The Bentley guide (MINI Cooper Service Manual: 2007-2013 *-* Bentley Publishers - Repair Manuals and Automotive Books) may be all that's out there but it's expensive. I'm looking for a version that isn't geared to self service, more just to know what's going on. Thanks.
 
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