Is the R56 cold start engine rattle an "official" MINI fault?

[W44NE G]

Hi,

I think my R56 Factory JCW has developed the "tractor" sound that a lot of people have complained about on this forum. It only happens when the car's been stood for a couple of days and the weather is cold. It lasts a few minutes and then everything's fine once it warms up a bit.

I was a little concerned but luckily, my local BMW garage picked up my car today for the new brake duct kit to be fitted and it made the noise when the guy started it up He told the garage and they're happy to take it in and resolve the issue.

The only thing though is they'll need it for 3 days and I don't want them to have it all that time, strip the engine down and then not be able to find what's causing the problem...

Has MINI accepted this as an official fault and if so, is there a "fix" that my dealer will be able to apply to sort it?

Mods... think I may have posted this in the wrong forum so please move it. Sorry

[S8RAH]

Quote: Originally Posted by W44NE G (original)

Hi,
Has MINI accepted this as an official fault and if so, is there a "fix" that my dealer will be able to apply to sort it?
:

Depends who you talk to.
Generally, no, they have not accepted it is a fault and yes, there are several fixes.
Some will say it is just an acoustic issue and ignore it, others will say they have had engine failures (timing chains jumping mainly) after experiencing the noise for some time.
Its your judgement call in the end.

[W44NE G]

Quote: Originally Posted by S8RAH (original)

Depends who you talk to.
Generally, no, they have not accepted it is a fault and yes, there are several fixes.
Some will say it is just an acoustic issue and ignore it, others will say they have had engine failures (timing chains jumping mainly) after experiencing the noise for some time.
Its your judgement call in the end.

Thanks for the reply. I suppose I should let them take it in for 3 days then in that case and see what they find to be the fault. I don't want it jumping the timing chain and breaking down in the middle of nowhere etc.

They seem to be a very good dealership to be honest (Williams @ Rohdale).

[S8RAH]

I should point out that there's no proof that the engine failures were directly linked to the noise. It may just be a coincidence.
Just incase its not, 3 days isn't that long really and it may give you peace of mind.
If you could let us know the outcome please it may help someone else later.
thanks.

[W44NE G]

Quote: Originally Posted by S8RAH (original)

I should point out that there's no proof that the engine failures were directly linked to the noise. It may just be a coincidence.
Just incase its not, 3 days isn't that long really and it may give you peace of mind.
If you could let us know the outcome please it may help someone else later.
thanks.

Will do... gonna book it in tomorrow.

[Roma]

My dealer wants my car for two days to fix the rattle. He said that it's not a big job but a lot of that time is to allow the engine to cool down completely.

As for MINI UK acknowledging the proble, it depends who you talk to. I registered my problem officially with MINI UK a while ago when I spoke to a very helpful Customer Relations person. Lately i've been speaking to someone else who is the most unhelpful Customer Relations person that I have ever spoken to across any marque. I guess I was lucky that I managed to get through to someone who knew something about customer relations the first time.

If you ever get through to a bloke at MINI UK Customer Relations who talks like a politician and simply repeats same sentences from a crib sheet that evade answering any of your questions directly then ask to speak to someone who can do their job properly.

[kevkbuk]

It does seem to vary who you talk to... but don't take no for an answer. There are several PUMA reports on the issue and several revisions have been made to the timing chain tensioner and other associated parts.

Mine went in last year for it, all together it was probably with them 6 weeks... but I think they knew less about the problem then, and some time was waiting for parts. It did appear to be fixed for a short while but is now coming back so it goes back again towards the end of this month for another round.

I let it idle till the noise goes then drive away. I wouldn't worry too much until it gets to the point of it doing it every time...

The more people take them back to the dealers the better though!

[rec]

MINI haven't issued a recall. Therefore the problem will only be fixed if the dealer can recreate the fault.

[humph]

Mine was sorted within a week, and the cars was in for a string of other minor issues. Don;t think it depends on recreating the problem, as it is unlikely that they managed to recreate my intermittent rattle. My understanding is that they have to take some measurements off the belt tensioner, as well as serieal numbers and car deatils. These are then sent to MINI and some form of request is raised. If a certain type of tensioner is fitted then MINI approve the repair. It's to do with tensioner type and the amount of adjustment avilable I think. It was explained to me quite well, but the phone line was crap

Mine had a new tensioner and belt. Has worked well.

MINI still maintain that it is purely an accoustic issue, and that no damage will result from it.

[rec]

interesting. i mentioned it to my BMW and they said that wasn't the case. i'll take mine in once i get video evidence of my car being crap.

[mineroo]

Heres the latest on this : Bentley Publishers Technical Discussion Boards

New part released :
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partgrp.d...31&hg=11&fg=25

It does seem to depend on who you talk to but 'dealer A' will still maintain its purely an acoustic problem and a character of the engine however 'dealer B' upon now being told of the problem will call you in and your car will need 4 days of work to have fitted : whole new timing assembly, crank shaft, camshaft, oil pump and valve train..

It seems this horrible cold start noise is actual wear and tear (how much is debatable) but a few bmw dealerships have told me that they are seeing an increasing number of cooper s turbos coming in for full engine rebuilds or in some extreme cases a new engine because once the timing chain goes (and its not supposed to) then each time you or an engineer tries to start the car its destroying the engine internals and this is all fine and dandy except if you happen to be the poor soul whos warranty is over.

The smart dealerships seem to be getting their customers in for some serious work which in most cases seems to be precautionary (but isnt that how bmw used to be, take care of their customers) so i would get down to your local dealership and get booked in for the version 3 tensioner upgrade and if you have a good dealership they will do all of the work i described above however if your dealership is the kind that tells you the noise is 'a characteristic of the engine and causes no harm' they are not only telling you lies (because even bmw dont know the exact problem, this version 3 tensioner they believe is the real fix) and also if thats your dealers attitude you would be better off trying another dealership..

Bmw should now be issuing recalls because the fix they now have is in effect stripping your engine down and rebuilding it. Get it done whilst your still under warranty as bmw charge just over £5,000 for that outside warranty.

Happy driving.

[KenL]

Fantastic post mineroo.

Are you in the UK?

Where did you get such info?

[Dainewb]

I had this problem for over a year. They tried various things that just made it worse! Then they changed the timing belts and that has worked so far................

[finkaivara]

I just got call from MINI service Finland. My -07 August build MCS clubman is going in at 18th of May.

They told me that there is certainly BMW/MINI own TSB on cold start "tractor" sound issues. They will change timing chain tensioner and measure the timing chain. If it's out of tolerance, they will order and replace needed parts.

I didn't get the TSB number, but they told me that symptoms are acknowledged by MINI.

If somebody is willing spend some bucks to find what the exact TSB number is, could try MINI TIS EPA and find out...

[superclaret]

I have an MCS and its pretty much made that noise since new, which was july 2008, but I havent done anything about it.
My dealership (Harrogate, North Yorkshire) have said its a characteristic of the engine, so im guessing if I wanted to pursue it I'd need to try another dealership. Its annoying, but I can live with it.

Surely if it was a really damaging condition to the engine then Bmw Mini would know this? Its seems all MCS's do it, so they must know a fair bit about it. Atleast wether it does cause lasting damage. My bro got an MCS at the same time as me and his does it.
People have mentioned that its been rectified or improved on later models, but mine's only 9 months old, so not sure about this.