[Stevie B]

I posted this on the North American Motoring forum...now here for your pleasure.

Don't know how many of you are also Bimmer-files and also BMW Car Club of America members (like me ). Anyway, I just received my Nov '05 issue today, and there's a 4-page article on the Koni FSDs. Rather than an info-mercial, it's actually a test between OEM, Koni adjustables (set to softest), and the FSDs. The level playing field platform are 3 identically prepared BMW E46 coupes (same wheels/tires), and the test is run at TireRack's autocross course, a slalom, and skidpad. Well, the FSDs kicked butt on the slalom, set the best group average and average Gs on the skid pad, and set the best lap time on the autocross course. They loved them, and stated the ride quality is equal to a Buick Electra while cornering was "autocross" level. They were quite amazed and praised them to death. I'm convinced (for street use) that there's not a better suspension upgrade than FSDs-only (no springs) for those seeking better ride quality and still not give up a thing on cornering. If fact, these will enhance cornering, and still leave you with other cornering improvement options (bushings, bars, etc.) that won't adversely affect shock bump control. It's a very interesting article. Not available on news stands--sorry. Wish they used the MINI S instead of that chick car.

Here's a link (contained within) to the article as posted by another member:

http://www.northamericanmotoring.com...ad.php?t=55367

Enjoy!

[rkw]

Quote: Originally Posted by Stevie B

Wish they used the MINI S instead of that chick car.

And I can guess what E46 owners would call a MINI...

[Stevie B]

Quote: Originally Posted by rkw

And I can guess what E46 owners would call a MINI...

We've had two E46's (both the wife's cars). They can refer to the MINI anything they wish, but they'll be staring at the tailend evey time. E46 = jack of all trades, master of nothing. It's #1 attribute is its resale value (MINI beats it there too). Thankfully we've progressed beyond the "3er" (as it's called in Germany). We have a 5er on order (530i). I may change it for the 550i...

Cheers!

[Spoon_BMW]

Quote: Originally Posted by Stevie B

We've had two E46's (both the wife's cars). They can refer to the MINI anything they wish, but they'll be staring at the tailend evey time. E46 = jack of all trades, master of nothing. It's #1 attribute is its resale value (MINI beats it there too). Thankfully we've progressed beyond the "3er" (as it's called in Germany). We have a 5er on order (530i). I may change it for the 550i...

Cheers!

Rubbish, a 325 or a 330 would hammer a standard cooper S. Anyway, you can't really compare two cars that are both from a different class.

[Stevie B]

Quote: Originally Posted by Spoon_BMW

Rubbish, a 325 or a 330 would hammer a standard cooper S. Anyway, you can't really compare two cars that are both from a different class.

So what if they're from a different class? Problem with the Bimmers is that they are geared for low rpms at Autobahn speeds...end result is poor(er) acceleration, although low end torque isn't bad (until you see what a BMW diesel is capable of). You know what they say, first into turn 1 will be first into turn 2. In the future, if you want to discount statements (so eloquently as you did) you may want to offer some credible information, such as state your experience with both cars. Considering I have thousands of miles behind the wheels of both, in both America and on the high-speed roads of Europe, I'd say maybe I have some experience to go with my asertions. What do you have to offer? Check the 0-60 times of both the E46 325 and 330 and be preprared to be unimpressed. Now, the new motors are a different story, but TireRack used the E46 in their comparison. Anyway, thanks for contributing to the thread staying off track...

[rkw]

I guess I triggered the off-topic bit with my comment, which was meant as a bit of a joke. But you're not entirely without blame either, Stevie B!

Anyway, my MINI has just been fitted with FSDs. I won't have a chance to try them until after the holiday weekend. I chose to do the FSDs because I wanted to improve the ride for my family, without compromising handling.

[SteveM3]

Excellent article , thanks for bringing it to our attention. Now does anyone know how
to wear your old shocks out quickly so I can justify some new FSDs?

[Stevie B]

Quote: Originally Posted by rkw

I guess I triggered the off-topic bit with my comment, which was meant as a bit of a joke. But you're not entirely without blame either, Stevie B!

Originally I had the word "being" as in "being off track" in my last sentence. Then, I edited it to state "staying" as I knew I needed to accept partial blame for the thread deviation. Anyway, I do try always to apply integrity to what I say and do.

Please provide some feedback on the FSDs once you get use to them. I'm very interested to hear more about the handling characteristics.

Cheers!

[rkw]

Quote: Originally Posted by Stevie B

Please provide some feedback on the FSDs once you get use to them. I'm very interested to hear more about the handling characteristics.

The problem is that I had both a rear swaybar and the FSDs installed at the same time, so it will be hard to isolate the effects of the shocks alone.

[xtremepsionic]

Quote: Originally Posted by rkw

The problem is that I had both a rear swaybar and the FSDs installed at the same time, so it will be hard to isolate the effects of the shocks alone.

NOT TRUE! I'll give you a tip

Aim for the potholes!!! You're right though, it'll be harder to tell if its the FSD or the rear sway bar helping handling. The sway bar will tend to make the car more willing to rotate, while the FSD should make the car feel more planted and stable, limiting brake dive and acceleration squat.

[mmalc]

For some comments on the FSDs, see New Koni FSD's and Springs in my '05MCS. Quick summary of my experience: They're excellent.

mmalc

[OldRick]

And here is the more detailed Tire Rack report from which the BMWCCA article was derived.

[MarkW19]

Do the FSDs significantly improve handling/cornering? Can they be used with upper/lower strut braces (OMP) and will they work well together?

I want something that will mainly improve handling (and it'll have to improve a lot for the money the Koni's are!), and if the ride is even more comfortable than it is now then that's a bonus.

[shazam]

I have been looking into these FSD'S and have come to the conclusion that they must be the ultimate suspension mod for my mini- the only downside is that i would like it a tiny bit lower- however i would rather have better ride and handling everytime.

I also note that 'Awsome gti' do them for £350 or thereabouts, I would much rather buy from Lohen or GTT though, as they put a lot of time and money toward M2.

I haveto have them, they will be mine.

I'll just have to run it past the wife first.

[Stevie B]

Quote: Originally Posted by MarkW19

Do the FSDs significantly improve handling/cornering? Can they be used with upper/lower strut braces (OMP) and will they work well together?

I want something that will mainly improve handling (and it'll have to improve a lot for the money the Koni's are!), and if the ride is even more comfortable than it is now then that's a bonus.

Yeah, they improve cornering a lot. In fact, I never knew how bad my MINI S handled until I installed them. And not just cornering. They also greatly increase control during take off, make shifting smoother while cornering, and greatly reduce torque steer under hard acceleration. They just make everyting more taut. All that while reducing the teeth shattering ride down to BMW 3er level (with sport pkg).

[MarkW19]

Sounds good! Just researching now to see if they'll work with my eibach lowering springs...some say no, some say yes.

Also thinking of adding upper & lower strut braces to improve handling even more...will the struts make a big difference AGAIN over the fsd's, will they all work well together (or will the struts interfere with the fsd's etc?), and will the struts change the ride hardness or anything?

[xtremepsionic]

Quote: Originally Posted by MarkW19

Also thinking of adding upper & lower strut braces to improve handling even more...will the struts make a big difference AGAIN over the fsd's, will they all work well together (or will the struts interfere with the fsd's etc?), and will the struts change the ride hardness or anything?

The strut braces will definitely be a good thing, they'll improve chassis stiffness, so the car will feel more like one big solid block and doesn't vibrate as much, and there will be better steering response, especially in fast sweeping corners.

ps. don't call them struts, they're strut braces Struts are the actual damper units in the front of the MINI.

[MarkW19]

"Strut braces" it is

Ive just heard that the upper strut brace on a cooper wont fit properly & some of the bonnet insulation has to be cut, which I really dont want to do.

So I'm thinking of just the lower strut brace. Will this make an improvement to the handling on its own, or may it cause problems with it designed to be used together with the upper one?

Should they just be installed as a pair?

[xtremepsionic]

According to your profile and sig, you have Eibach lowering springs but no rear sway bar. To be honest you'll feel the car being more agile and light on its "feet" if you get a 18 or 19mm rear sway bar for your Cooper.

The strut braces will help (I'm not sure how much just the lower one would do by itself, but I'm sure you can install that alone if you wanted to). But its more of a "confidence" enhancer for long sweeping corners, the car just feels a little more direct and solid, while the rear sway bar actually changes the car's handling dynamics.

Like many have said, the MINI's chassis is already one of the stiffest out there (50% stiffer than the last 3 series, which means its VERY stiff) so there isn't as much to gain from strut braces as other cars out there.

[MarkW19]

So the strut braces may not make much of a difference...but a rear sway bar will?

What exactly does the rear sway bar do? How will it improve handling/cornering, will it improve steering response, how will the ride (hardness) be affected, etc.? Any negative effects from it?

Thanks!