MINI2

MarkW19 · Feb 9th, 2006, 07:06 PM

Thinking of getting one of these (maybe in conjunction with Koni FSDs) to significantly improve handling.

But, I don't want ANY problems with oversteer etc. I don't want to drive any different from how I drive now, but I just want better handling, less bodyroll etc.

I don't do any track days etc., just moderately fast road use.

However, I've heard that on the stiff setting (which is the setting I'd want it on - the soft setting is barely better than stock) in wet/snowy/icey conditions, the back end can come out, even at slowish speeds, and it's likely to cause problems in these sorts of conditions.

Obviously in the UK, this is a concern!!

I wouldn't want to be messing about with changing the setting for the Winter etc., as even if I do this, I'll still be potentially caught out with the odd icey/snowy/wet day etc. throughout the year. I'd want to install the bar on the stiff setting, then leave it alone.

Xtremepsionic: I know your views on this (thanks!!

), but what does anyone else have to say on the subject?

Thanks,

Mark

MarkW19 · Feb 14th, 2006, 07:00 PM

No-one ?

WEEGIT · Feb 16th, 2006, 01:45 PM

I'm in the same boat as regards wanting more neutrality, but safely shy of oversteer. I've considered DINAN's 19mm adjustable bar (stiffest setting) and H-Sport's 25mm adjustable competition bar (softest setting), and I know there are many others below, above and in between. I've nearly concluded that the DINAN bar should be just about right, and covered by certain dealers when installed by them. Though my MCSC will probably never see the track (at speed) nor snow, it does get slick around here from time to time. Of course, ridding myself of the run-flats will have an even more profound effect on ride quality.

MarkW19 · Feb 16th, 2006, 02:29 PM

To be honest I've gone off the idea of an anti roll bar.

I went for a testdrive in a MINI One yesterday with Eibach coilovers on it, and no other suspension mods, and the handling was amazing. I don't need any extra that the anti roll bar would give me, and don't want to worry about winter/oversteer etc. so I'm staying clear of it!

The One also had front lower and upper strut braces. I'm not sure how much difference these made, but I'm told it would be minimal, just to tighten up the front end very slightly. So with the coilovers (and my Toyo T1S's), my car should handle perfectly how I want it!

obehave · Feb 16th, 2006, 03:04 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by MarkW19

To be honest I've gone off the idea of an anti roll bar.

I went for a testdrive in a MINI One yesterday with Eibach coilovers on it, and no other suspension mods, and the handling was amazing. I don't need any extra that the anti roll bar would give me, and don't want to worry about winter/oversteer etc. so I'm staying clear of it!

The One also had front lower and upper strut braces. I'm not sure how much difference these made, but I'm told it would be minimal, just to tighten up the front end very slightly. So with the coilovers (and my Toyo T1S's), my car should handle perfectly how I want it!

I have a lower frame brace(OMP, nice and it's cheap) and it introduced a bit of understeer.
An upper brace will add to this a bit.
Together they make a nice difference.

BTW Lower strut brace is a misnomer. They stiffen the frame but do nothing for the strut towers directly.

MarkW19 · Feb 16th, 2006, 03:10 PM

I think I'll be happy just with the coilovers, which will increase handling a lot anyway and reduce body roll (I'll also be lowered by 50mm).

obehave · Feb 16th, 2006, 03:34 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by MarkW19

I think I'll be happy just with the coilovers, which will increase handling a lot anyway and reduce body roll (I'll also be lowered by 50mm).

That's a big drop. Should make a nice difference all around.

Post some before and afters

MarkW19 · Feb 16th, 2006, 03:37 PM

lol will do!

Wolfman · Feb 17th, 2006, 07:22 PM

What are the standard sizes of the ARB's on your car now?

The H&R ones are 22mm front and 18mm rear.

Anti roll bars make a huge difference to the way a car handles.

Your conerns about oversteer are only real if the rear ARB is too stiff. Seeing as the H&R are adjustable you can tune the suspension where you are comfortable.

Its even more important to fit ARB's to car thats been lowered with stiffer suspension.

The ideal setup for UK roads (which stay wet most of the time!!

) (also are very uneven and bumpy) is to have springs which arent too hard with matching shocks and nice big adjustable Anti roll bars.

Going too hard with your suspension wil simply result in bad hanlding in the wet and lack of grip over uneven surfaces.

Exmaple: If you have adjustable Koni's whack them up to full. You maye get the feeling your car is handling better but it actually isnt. The suspension is so hard that the car is unsettled very easily and the tyres will lose contact with the road resulting in a bad handling car. On smooth surfaces like tracks its all good but thats not the case with roads.

MarkW19 · Feb 17th, 2006, 07:42 PM

I've just got the stock Cooper (SS) ARB's.

obehave · Feb 17th, 2006, 08:11 PM

H&R ARBs are 27mm & 19mm

Same parts for Cooper or MCS

MarkW19 · Feb 17th, 2006, 08:14 PM

H&R do an 18mm adjustable one too (rear).

obehave · Feb 17th, 2006, 08:55 PM

Sure isn't on their web site

http://www.hrsprings.com/site/index.html

MarkW19 · Feb 17th, 2006, 09:00 PM

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...ODUCT_ID=71416
http://www.modacar.com/products/Mini...18mm+Rear.html
http://www.promini.com/category-exec...earch_model/99
http://www.promini.com/product-exec/...earch_model/99

Xtremepsionic (amongst others) also have them on here

Not sure why it's not on their website...

obehave · Feb 17th, 2006, 09:05 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by MarkW19

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...ODUCT_ID=71416
http://www.modacar.com/products/Mini...18mm+Rear.html
http://www.promini.com/category-exec...earch_model/99
http://www.promini.com/product-exec/...earch_model/99

Xtremepsionic (amongst others) also have them on here

Not sure why it's not on their website...

Strange isn't it?

Good info though thanks

MarkW19 · Feb 17th, 2006, 09:06 PM

QED · Feb 17th, 2006, 11:29 PM

I have the H&R 18mm rear bar and I drive on winter roads here in Canada. My cars is a 03 MCS with an otherwise stock suspension, and Blizzak tires are used in the winter.

I keep the 18mm on the stiffer setting all year round and I don't notice any tendency for the car to oversteer on slippery roads. On Solo 1 and 2 courses in summer the car is reasonably neutral with slight understeer.

I have had this bar on for nearly 1 year with no noise issues, and no noticable change in ride quality.

I would recommend this mod for a street driven MINI, even one that sees winter or the racetrack ocassionally.

MarkW19 · Feb 18th, 2006, 12:03 AM

We don't use winter tyres in the UK, so your winter tyres may reduce the tendency for the bar to produce oversteer (as the tyres have more grip).

I've had totally conflicting advice. Not sure what to do...

I'll soon have Eibach ProStreet Coilovers dropped by 50mm too, don't know if that will alter the tendency for oversteer with an antiroll bar?

MarkW19 · Feb 18th, 2006, 12:05 AM

On a side-note, is it advisable to just get a new rear antiroll bar, without changing the front one too? Some people say the front should be changed as well to make the car more balanced.

obehave · Feb 18th, 2006, 12:29 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by MarkW19

On a side-note, is it advisable to just get a new rear antiroll bar, without changing the front one too? Some people say the front should be changed as well to make the car more balanced.

The best and most expensive option is to buy an entire suspension system like this H-Sport kit.

Many ,many people are driving and tracking the MINI with just a rear bar change. Myself included.
Since you said at the start of this thread that you wouldn't track the car you should be totally fine with just a rear bar.

I run the ALTA 22mm bar on the soft setting. It works for me. Still a bit of understeer which is good for me. Safer than oversteer at my skill level.

Feb 9th, 2006, 07:06 PM	#1
MarkW19 Grinning Join Date: May 2003 Location: Leeds Local Time: 09:34 PM Posts: 3,396 Offline	H&R 18mm Cooper Adjustable Anti-Roll bar Thinking of getting one of these (maybe in conjunction with Koni FSDs) to significantly improve handling. But, I don't want ANY problems with oversteer etc. I don't want to drive any different from how I drive now, but I just want better handling, less bodyroll etc. I don't do any track days etc., just moderately fast road use. However, I've heard that on the stiff setting (which is the setting I'd want it on - the soft setting is barely better than stock) in wet/snowy/icey conditions, the back end can come out, even at slowish speeds, and it's likely to cause problems in these sorts of conditions. Obviously in the UK, this is a concern!! I wouldn't want to be messing about with changing the setting for the Winter etc., as even if I do this, I'll still be potentially caught out with the odd icey/snowy/wet day etc. throughout the year. I'd want to install the bar on the stiff setting, then leave it alone. Xtremepsionic: I know your views on this (thanks!! ), but what does anyone else have to say on the subject? Thanks, Mark Last edited by MarkW19 : Feb 14th, 2006 at 07:02 PM.

Feb 16th, 2006, 01:45 PM	#3 (permalink)
WEEGIT MINI Convert Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Manhattan Beach, CA Local Time: 01:34 PM Posts: 61 Offline	I'm in the same boat as regards wanting more neutrality, but safely shy of oversteer. I've considered DINAN's 19mm adjustable bar (stiffest setting) and H-Sport's 25mm adjustable competition bar (softest setting), and I know there are many others below, above and in between. I've nearly concluded that the DINAN bar should be just about right, and covered by certain dealers when installed by them. Though my MCSC will probably never see the track (at speed) nor snow, it does get slick around here from time to time. Of course, ridding myself of the run-flats will have an even more profound effect on ride quality. Erik and my SoCal Cruiser 06 PW/B MCSC

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Feb 14th, 2006, 07:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
MarkW19 Grinning Join Date: May 2003 Location: Leeds Local Time: 09:34 PM Posts: 3,396 Offline	No-one ?

Feb 16th, 2006, 02:29 PM	#4 (permalink)
MarkW19 Grinning Join Date: May 2003 Location: Leeds Local Time: 09:34 PM Posts: 3,396 Offline	To be honest I've gone off the idea of an anti roll bar. I went for a testdrive in a MINI One yesterday with Eibach coilovers on it, and no other suspension mods, and the handling was amazing. I don't need any extra that the anti roll bar would give me, and don't want to worry about winter/oversteer etc. so I'm staying clear of it! The One also had front lower and upper strut braces. I'm not sure how much difference these made, but I'm told it would be minimal, just to tighten up the front end very slightly. So with the coilovers (and my Toyo T1S's), my car should handle perfectly how I want it!

Feb 16th, 2006, 03:04 PM	#5 (permalink)
obehave Mini Mod Join Date: Sep 2002 Local Time: 04:34 PM Posts: 9,254 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by MarkW19 To be honest I've gone off the idea of an anti roll bar. I went for a testdrive in a MINI One yesterday with Eibach coilovers on it, and no other suspension mods, and the handling was amazing. I don't need any extra that the anti roll bar would give me, and don't want to worry about winter/oversteer etc. so I'm staying clear of it! The One also had front lower and upper strut braces. I'm not sure how much difference these made, but I'm told it would be minimal, just to tighten up the front end very slightly. So with the coilovers (and my Toyo T1S's), my car should handle perfectly how I want it! I have a lower frame brace(OMP, nice and it's cheap) and it introduced a bit of understeer. An upper brace will add to this a bit. Together they make a nice difference. BTW Lower strut brace is a misnomer. They stiffen the frame but do nothing for the strut towers directly.

Feb 16th, 2006, 03:10 PM	#6 (permalink)
MarkW19 Grinning Join Date: May 2003 Location: Leeds Local Time: 09:34 PM Posts: 3,396 Offline	I think I'll be happy just with the coilovers, which will increase handling a lot anyway and reduce body roll (I'll also be lowered by 50mm).

Feb 16th, 2006, 03:34 PM	#7 (permalink)
obehave Mini Mod Join Date: Sep 2002 Local Time: 04:34 PM Posts: 9,254 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by MarkW19 I think I'll be happy just with the coilovers, which will increase handling a lot anyway and reduce body roll (I'll also be lowered by 50mm). That's a big drop. Should make a nice difference all around. Post some before and afters

Feb 16th, 2006, 03:37 PM	#8 (permalink)
MarkW19 Grinning Join Date: May 2003 Location: Leeds Local Time: 09:34 PM Posts: 3,396 Offline	lol will do!

Feb 17th, 2006, 07:22 PM	#9 (permalink)
Wolfman MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2006 Local Time: 09:34 PM Posts: 25 Offline	What are the standard sizes of the ARB's on your car now? The H&R ones are 22mm front and 18mm rear. Anti roll bars make a huge difference to the way a car handles. Your conerns about oversteer are only real if the rear ARB is too stiff. Seeing as the H&R are adjustable you can tune the suspension where you are comfortable. Its even more important to fit ARB's to car thats been lowered with stiffer suspension. The ideal setup for UK roads (which stay wet most of the time!! ) (also are very uneven and bumpy) is to have springs which arent too hard with matching shocks and nice big adjustable Anti roll bars. Going too hard with your suspension wil simply result in bad hanlding in the wet and lack of grip over uneven surfaces. Exmaple: If you have adjustable Koni's whack them up to full. You maye get the feeling your car is handling better but it actually isnt. The suspension is so hard that the car is unsettled very easily and the tyres will lose contact with the road resulting in a bad handling car. On smooth surfaces like tracks its all good but thats not the case with roads.

Feb 17th, 2006, 07:42 PM	#10 (permalink)
MarkW19 Grinning Join Date: May 2003 Location: Leeds Local Time: 09:34 PM Posts: 3,396 Offline	I've just got the stock Cooper (SS) ARB's.

Feb 17th, 2006, 08:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
obehave Mini Mod Join Date: Sep 2002 Local Time: 04:34 PM Posts: 9,254 Offline	H&R ARBs are 27mm & 19mm Same parts for Cooper or MCS

Feb 17th, 2006, 08:14 PM	#12 (permalink)
MarkW19 Grinning Join Date: May 2003 Location: Leeds Local Time: 09:34 PM Posts: 3,396 Offline	H&R do an 18mm adjustable one too (rear).

Feb 17th, 2006, 08:55 PM	#13 (permalink)
obehave Mini Mod Join Date: Sep 2002 Local Time: 04:34 PM Posts: 9,254 Offline	Sure isn't on their web site http://www.hrsprings.com/site/index.html

Feb 17th, 2006, 09:00 PM	#14 (permalink)
MarkW19 Grinning Join Date: May 2003 Location: Leeds Local Time: 09:34 PM Posts: 3,396 Offline	http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...ODUCT_ID=71416 http://www.modacar.com/products/Mini...18mm+Rear.html http://www.promini.com/category-exec...earch_model/99 http://www.promini.com/product-exec/...earch_model/99 Xtremepsionic (amongst others) also have them on here Not sure why it's not on their website...

Feb 17th, 2006, 09:05 PM	#15 (permalink)
obehave Mini Mod Join Date: Sep 2002 Local Time: 04:34 PM Posts: 9,254 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by MarkW19 http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...ODUCT_ID=71416 http://www.modacar.com/products/Mini...18mm+Rear.html http://www.promini.com/category-exec...earch_model/99 http://www.promini.com/product-exec/...earch_model/99 Xtremepsionic (amongst others) also have them on here Not sure why it's not on their website... Strange isn't it? Good info though thanks

Feb 17th, 2006, 09:06 PM	#16 (permalink)
MarkW19 Grinning Join Date: May 2003 Location: Leeds Local Time: 09:34 PM Posts: 3,396 Offline	lol

Feb 17th, 2006, 11:29 PM	#17 (permalink)
QED MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Jan 2006 Local Time: 08:34 PM Posts: 2 Offline	I have the H&R 18mm rear bar and I drive on winter roads here in Canada. My cars is a 03 MCS with an otherwise stock suspension, and Blizzak tires are used in the winter. I keep the 18mm on the stiffer setting all year round and I don't notice any tendency for the car to oversteer on slippery roads. On Solo 1 and 2 courses in summer the car is reasonably neutral with slight understeer. I have had this bar on for nearly 1 year with no noise issues, and no noticable change in ride quality. I would recommend this mod for a street driven MINI, even one that sees winter or the racetrack ocassionally.

Feb 18th, 2006, 12:03 AM	#18 (permalink)
MarkW19 Grinning Join Date: May 2003 Location: Leeds Local Time: 09:34 PM Posts: 3,396 Offline	We don't use winter tyres in the UK, so your winter tyres may reduce the tendency for the bar to produce oversteer (as the tyres have more grip). I've had totally conflicting advice. Not sure what to do... I'll soon have Eibach ProStreet Coilovers dropped by 50mm too, don't know if that will alter the tendency for oversteer with an antiroll bar?

Feb 18th, 2006, 12:05 AM	#19 (permalink)
MarkW19 Grinning Join Date: May 2003 Location: Leeds Local Time: 09:34 PM Posts: 3,396 Offline	On a side-note, is it advisable to just get a new rear antiroll bar, without changing the front one too? Some people say the front should be changed as well to make the car more balanced.

Feb 18th, 2006, 12:29 AM	#20 (permalink)
obehave Mini Mod Join Date: Sep 2002 Local Time: 04:34 PM Posts: 9,254 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by MarkW19 On a side-note, is it advisable to just get a new rear antiroll bar, without changing the front one too? Some people say the front should be changed as well to make the car more balanced. The best and most expensive option is to buy an entire suspension system like this H-Sport kit. Many ,many people are driving and tracking the MINI with just a rear bar change. Myself included. Since you said at the start of this thread that you wouldn't track the car you should be totally fine with just a rear bar. I run the ALTA 22mm bar on the soft setting. It works for me. Still a bit of understeer which is good for me. Safer than oversteer at my skill level.

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