[mcs_jcw]

I've started a couple of threads on suspensions, either springs and/or coilovers.
For everyone to understand in detail what are my aims as regards suspensions I'd say I want a suspension which gives me the best grip in windy roads and irregular tracks as Nürburgring.
I don't want my car to be lowered as much as it can, I want it effective in such situations.
I rarely drive it on the highway, and I don't use it everyday or in the city as I've got a common car for that.
Well then, taking into account that if possible I wouldn't spend more than 1300€, what would be your recommendations?
The ones I've got an eye on them are KW V2 or Tein SS. Much better maybe Bilstein PSS9 or Cross or Leda, but they are very expensive.
Hope this thread can help me and many others!

[BigShow300]

Cross from1320autos, cheaper than you think and proven by Jan (RMW) in the USA on track

[mcs_jcw]

You mean Cross Coilovers??? Can't find them in the web page!

[BigShow300]

Yes... neither 1320 or RMW are advertising them but they can both supply them to you or go here for a quick look and prices.

Plus I've heard they're more comfy than stock susp on road!

[MINIAC]

Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow (original)

... neither 1320 or RMW are advertising them

RMW has them advertised in their Sponsor forum ...

http://www.mini2.com/forum/revolutio...t-2nd-gen.html

[mcs_jcw]

I've seen the cost 2450 dollars so, around 1650 €. That's over my budget. But keep them in mind. Are they a good option for what i've asked? Better than getting a KW V2, for instance?

[mcs_jcw]

Sure I want also a set of camber plates, so that can be a good option too.

[mcs_jcw]

Meanwhile, any springs to use with my stock struts until I get to save money to buy some of these coilovers??? Again, for the use I've said. Not too lower not too stiff either. I very often find my Sport Plus suspension a bit too soft.

[Ant FR]

to be honest, unless you are a super serious driver, Your not going to be pushing it hard enough to need to uprate the suspension for the ring.

Have you been before, if so how many laps you got in???

The reason i ask, is i have seen so many people who have been speccing there car up to the hilt to take on trips with us and they get out there all hyped up and gonna set an 8 minute lap and they end up smacking it. The Ring is unlike and y track day you may do in the Uk. All rules go out of the window, it leaves most people in awe just driving round. You spend so much time checking your mirrors and remembering the circuit, you don't get a real chance to push it as hard as you may on Brands or other uk circuits.

Last guy who was hell bent on top handling came out with us in a focus, he came back in my mates megane 225, due to staking his Focus into Adenaue bridge whilst being pushed my a local in a bogo standard 5 series.

I would say at the ring, circuit knowledge counts for 80 % and ability of car counts for 20%.

i just booked my first of the year for end of April, will be doing 4 visits this year, hopefully one of those will be a mini2 if it ever gets orgainised.

[GRSmotorsport]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ant FR (original)

I would say at the ring, circuit knowledge counts for 80 % and ability of car counts for 20%.

Totally agree, I've done 10 laps, great fun, and will go again.

[Hobbe]

Ditto.
I usually try to visit Nordschleife every Summer.

For one or a few track visits a year there's no need to upgrade the suspension.
For regular visits on the local tracks the cheap alternative is to switch to springs with higher spring rates.
A more expensive alternative is i.e PSS9, which by the way I had fitted on my old R53 Works, and have only good things to say about.
Since I spend most of my time in the GP on tracks only I decided to go with a complete MINI Challenge suspension from KW this time.

[Revolution Mini Works]

Quote: Originally Posted by mcs_jcw (original)

I've seen the cost 2450 dollars so, around 1650 €. That's over my budget. But keep them in mind. Are they a good option for what i've asked? Better than getting a KW V2, for instance?

The Cross are better than the KW V2 plus you are not factoring in camber plates which come standard with the Cross. They even include drop links. If you go to my vendor site here on Mini2 you will see the killer deal I am offering for them.

[roland2003]

Nothing betters PSS9 as a complete kit . I like the way all the manufacturers always take pics of their shocks with the rubber gaiters on under the springs. Thats because underneath all the anodised showy bits is a puny piston rod of about 20mm diameter.
PSS9 give you a 40mm rod on their front AND rear shocks. I dont know any other brand that gives that for the same money.
Damping adjustment on the front or rear takes seconds! no modding required.
-Do your homework guys, ask the questions, the other manufacturers know very well PSS9 is the best,

[Revolution Mini Works]

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

Nothing betters PSS9 as a complete kit . I like the way all the manufacturers always take pics of their shocks with the rubber gaiters on under the springs. Thats because underneath all the anodised showy bits is a puny piston rod of about 20mm diameter.
PSS9 give you a 40mm rod on their front AND rear shocks. I dont know any other brand that gives that for the same money.
Damping adjustment on the front or rear takes seconds! no modding required.
-Do your homework guys, ask the questions, the other manufacturers know very well PSS9 is the best,

As usual.... it pains me to set the record straight yet again.....
this is straight from Cross's website
CROSS - CROSS Competition for Mini
CROSS Competition coilover systems for your high performance machine. The Competition Series is our top of the line coilover system. It features a lightweight design with a 15 way dampening adjustable monotube damper. With its high strength and durability, the Competition Series insures that it will last through any type of driving condition. The front damper features a 40 mm piston and the rear has either a 40 or 45mm piston depending on application.



These coilovers are so much better than PSS9s it's not even close. You cannot drop the car as much without sacrificing piston stroke because the PSS9s won't allow it without compromising the spring preload.... Not only that.....they come standard with drop links and CAMBER PLATES.........do the PSS9s come with this? You can see why people are flocking to CROSS a much better product for even better pricing.

[roland2003]

..lets see your cars go round Castle Combe in 1min16 on slicks 1min 18 on treads as the challenge cars do on PSS9 and my car too. I wasnt even refering to your shocks Ive never seen them ,
I would personally go with German engineering and PSS9's more proven record worldwide ,though Im sure yours are OK too.

[Revolution Mini Works]

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

..lets see your cars go round Castle Combe in 1min16 on slicks 1min 18 on treads as the challenge cars do on PSS9 and my car too. I wasnt even refering to your shocks Ive never seen them ,
I would personally go with German engineering and PSS9's more proven record worldwide ,though Im sure yours are OK too.

just so I get this straight as your posts are quite confusing....

now that I show you originally that your post is 100% wrong... you throw out a silly statement like :

"lets see your cars go round castle combe in 1min 16 sec"?


that's some brilliant logic

[roland2003]

Rod diameter is only one of many criteria that make a good shock, and yes most are puny. Bilstein PSS9 is the standard benchmark at the higher end by which others can be judged. The build quality is legendary & lap times are proven at Castle Combe , its a time challenge that other lesser brands would not be able to compete with and would show themselves lacking with poorer times. ....why not see if you you can get someone over here to test your kit round there? Or any track used within the Cooper Challenge.
Bilstein Pss9 has to be the obvious choice for the 'ring' its probably developed on that very track ,any many others no doubt.

[dlpruk]

I wonder how many members enjoy reading squabbles between vendors? And how many share my reaction of a plague on both your houses?

At least I now know two to avoid!

[roland2003]

Sorry you feel that way David. Believe me we get nothing from promoting Bilstein on here. The profits are very low and you can buy them anywhere. I mention PSS9 as despite this I want people to know what IMHO is the best kit for the ring as per the thread title.
Jan comes on as he does all agressive, nobody even mentioned his kit.
Theres another thread for him to hype his kit up on .
Me I would always choose Bilstein, Ive used most brands over the years and driven Minis with many brands fitted. Bilsteins perform, are strong and dont leak .
On another note I would advise against any shock that is shorter (fully extended )than stock unless you run a plate LSD aswell. The reason being a longer shock allows the inside front wheel to droop down and make contact with the tarmac and at least put 'some' power down through it. In fact with a standard diff the best way to put some power down out of the corners is use shocks with plenty of available droop ,very strong springs and a thinner (or even remove completly) the front Anti Roll Bar. ....It works very well. (1 min 19 seconds round Castle Combe in a Renault 5 on treads!)

[Hobbe]

I've had PSS9 on both my old R53 Works and BMW Z4.
Both cars used more on the local tracks, and Nordschleife than on public roads.
Very easy to adjust dampening, but the springs are too soft to handle more serious racing (50-60 N/mm).
I had my PSS9 springs on the Z4 updated with H&R Nürburgring Cup Kit springs (100 N/mm) based on the experience from some racing teams using PSS9 I happen to know.
Nothing to recommend unless your car is spending all, or almost all time on the tracks.

At this point I have no knowledge of Cross, but I'm sure no ordinary daily driver would be disappointed.
I hope RMW has a few more arguments up his sleave to support his statement because German engineering, and a product proven on Nordschleife by a reputable manufacturer is a tough nut to crack.

I decided to go a different route this time, and ordered the proven MINI Challenge suspension (KW).

(I have not bought one part from neither Roland nor RMW so I'm pretty neutral when it comes to the boring RMW-GTT squabble)