MINI2

gowest · Jan 26th, 2003, 03:43 AM

I'll try to answer a few ??? about bars, bushings and bushing lube. Is the RDR bar, that Helix sells, worth the extra $50, YES, to me it is because I autocross and the 3 adjustment positions mean I can adjust the car to work better on different surfaces or courses or varying weather or different springs. Poly bushing are well known to have problems with squeaking. The RDR bar comes with a very dark grey grease and so far I have had no problems. If I had to guess I'd say the grease had Molly in it but a similar grease I got with the bar on my Subaru I was told was a Lithium grease and I had noise problems. What solved the problems with the Subaru bars was two or three things. I got a second set of rear bushins that was textured on the inside surface so it retained the grease better and on the front I installed grease fitings after drilling holes through the clamp and bushing (0ff the car) then drimilled a small spiral groove around the inside of the bushing so the grease would spread around when I gave it a shot with the grease gun. I also switched to synthetic grease at the same time. Eighteen months later and still no more squeaking.

I have no experience with other bars on the MINI.

coops41 · Jan 26th, 2003, 09:01 AM

SWAYBAR

sounds great for autox and low speed manouvers but will it make the car to taily in high speed situations, especially track work on flowing curcuits. Phillip island here in oz springs to mind as there are a couple of flat out 180kph corners, if you have to get off the throttle 4 some reason you dont really want the back coming around at that speed.Anyone tried a rear bar on a quick circuit?

sadales · Jan 30th, 2003, 12:09 AM

I'm planning to install the RDR rear sway bar on my 2003 MCS this weekend. The instructions say to put the car up on four jackstands. I can identify some good spots for jackstands at the front of the car, but where do you put them at the rear, especially if you are working on the suspension? I'll be installing coilovers in the next couple of months too, so this will be a recurring problem. The only places that I am sure are safe for the rear of the car are the two lifting blocks, but I'll need those spots to jack the car up in the first place. Help!

Scott
90STX

Antranik · Feb 27th, 2003, 06:25 AM

Two hundred fifty dollars. Woah.. is that correct? I mean.. it is still basically just a bar... that is very expensive :-/ All this rear sway bar talk seems like something I would love to get, but I am wondering, if even a moderate rear sway bar upgrade is noticeably better at handling, why doesn't it come stock?

Feb 27th, 2003, 10:45 AM

Just keep in mind that adding only a rear swar bar will definently make the car have more oversteer. Now whether this just dials out the understeer or actually causes oversteer I don't know. On a front engine rear wheel drive BMW M3, it acutally handles better if you put on a stiff bar in the front, and no bar in the rear. This way it loses the on the throttle high speed oversteer. Now, granted, the mini is front engine front wheel drive, but the basic physics remain the same. Personally, I wouldn't want a street car that oversteers...thats just something I wouldn't want to be driving.

-Andrew

Romhog · Mar 6th, 2003, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by L8 Apex
Just keep in mind that adding only a rear swar bar will definently make the car have more oversteer. Now whether this just dials out the understeer or actually causes oversteer I don't know

thats my biggest question. All I want to know is, does this cancel out the understeer, or does it take it so far as to making you a pro race driver, to keep it in check. I think the car is about as well balanced as I have ever felt in ANY car. What is the sway going to do? too much , just right?

Antranik · Mar 6th, 2003, 01:23 AM

"Just keep in mind that adding only a rear swar bar will definently make the car have more oversteer. Now whether this just dials out the understeer or actually causes oversteer I don't know"

The former statement isn't always true. But what you say about it dialing out understeer, that is what everybody is looking for I believe.

This car is very neutral for the way it come stock, but if you drive the car quick enough, you will experience some understeer. If any of these bars take away the understeer further and do not add oversteer, i will look into the upgrade. I am certain a rear sway bar alone won't be able to achieve this, a smaller front sway bar would have to complement if there is all-out tuning happening.

mikehome1 · Mar 25th, 2003, 10:41 AM

Swaybar-does anyone market a rear swaybar that doesn't need to be removed to adjust.Further I'm concerned with the squeak comments on this thread

Albert · Mar 25th, 2003, 10:50 AM

For squeak concerns, look into the H-sport swaybars. They have grease zerks on each of the bushings.

Romhog · Mar 25th, 2003, 11:09 AM

where can you buy that one?

Albert · Mar 25th, 2003, 12:41 PM

You can check out the products at www.h-sport.com

If you want to order, call Hotchkis directly at (562) 907-7757 and ask for J.C. (tell him Albert sent ya!)

Albert · Mar 26th, 2003, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by obehave
Might want to specify that this would not be just any old grease you'll be pumping in there.
I'm curious what they'd recommend have you heard?

Good question. I'll ask them later this week (going to Hotchkis this Thursday).

Albert · Mar 26th, 2003, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by obehave
Very cool. Do me a favor and give the H-Sport strut brace a good look if they have one on display. I'm interested in it and I'd like some feedback.

TIA

No problem, although I'm not much of a strut bar connoisseur, so other than "it looks neat", I don't know how valuable my observation will be

TBDAugs · Mar 27th, 2003, 03:59 AM

I raced the Mini Cooper with stock sport suspension last year in H Stock. The car had BAD power on understeer coming out of hard corners, particularly if you came in hot. The wheels would spin. This on Yokohama A520's.

This year I bought a new Mini Cooper to race in H Stock with the sport suspension plus, which adds a bit stiffer spring and a beefier rear sway (and front), then added Koni sports rear and set them at half way. I also now run Hoosiers, and the car is marvelously neutral with just a little oversteer on demand.

Adding a stiffer rear sway will help neutralize the understeer inherent in this, and many small front wheel drive cars, but you would have only noticed it, IMHO, under hard racing conditions on power on out of slow corners.

Limited slip differential would have been a nicer add so as to help the wheel slip on power on, which would also help the understeer...but it's not allowed in H stock class.

AXAugs

Albert · Apr 2nd, 2003, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by obehave
Might want to specify that this would not be just any old grease you'll be pumping in there.
I'm curious what they'd recommend have you heard?

OK, I forgot about this thread so my apologies for the delayed response. They recommend synthetic chassis lube.

On another note, H-Sport ended up using my car last week for some R&D b/c I was running 17" OZ Superleggeras, which they know is a real popular rim with Coopers. They wanted to see if I would end up w/any rubbing using their H-Sport springs. While they were at it, they also installed a set of front and rear sway bars too! More to be posted on a separate thread!

Albert · Apr 2nd, 2003, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by obehave
Looks neat will do fine.
Also if they think it will clear a BMP intake without any problems.

I didn't get a chance to actually see a sway bar b/c they were running behind a bit on production. I also asked Mark Hotchkis about fitment over the BMP, and although he wasn't 100% sure, he did mention that if it's anything like the K&N Typhoon (in terms of clearances) that the bar should work. (p.s. they know that the strut bar will work with the K&N Typhoon kit, b/c the MCS they R&D'd on for the strut bar had the kit on at the time)

Jan 26th, 2003, 03:43 AM	#21
gowest MINI2 Regular Join Date: May 2002 Location: Va. Local Time: 12:44 AM Posts: 208 Offline	I'll try to answer a few ??? about bars, bushings and bushing lube. Is the RDR bar, that Helix sells, worth the extra $50, YES, to me it is because I autocross and the 3 adjustment positions mean I can adjust the car to work better on different surfaces or courses or varying weather or different springs. Poly bushing are well known to have problems with squeaking. The RDR bar comes with a very dark grey grease and so far I have had no problems. If I had to guess I'd say the grease had Molly in it but a similar grease I got with the bar on my Subaru I was told was a Lithium grease and I had noise problems. What solved the problems with the Subaru bars was two or three things. I got a second set of rear bushins that was textured on the inside surface so it retained the grease better and on the front I installed grease fitings after drilling holes through the clamp and bushing (0ff the car) then drimilled a small spiral groove around the inside of the bushing so the grease would spread around when I gave it a shot with the grease gun. I also switched to synthetic grease at the same time. Eighteen months later and still no more squeaking. I have no experience with other bars on the MINI. 2001 & 2002 SCCA, STS Pro Solo National Champion. 2003 SCCA, Solo2 Nationals 8th, co-driver (Courtney) 2nd in 03 & 04 2003 JCW 210, London Stainless Headers, custom cat back with 5" SuperTrapp, 15x7.5 SSR's and 16x8 ce28n's, Quaife, KW Comp 2 Ways

Feb 27th, 2003, 06:25 AM	#24 (permalink)
Antranik MINI2 Regular Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Calabasas, Los Angel Local Time: 08:44 PM Posts: 116 Offline	Two hundred fifty dollars. Woah.. is that correct? I mean.. it is still basically just a bar... that is very expensive :-/ All this rear sway bar talk seems like something I would love to get, but I am wondering, if even a moderate rear sway bar upgrade is noticeably better at handling, why doesn't it come stock? -Anto DS/B MINI Cooper S Got It: 2/9/03. It's All Excellent.

Mar 6th, 2003, 01:23 AM	#27 (permalink)
Antranik MINI2 Regular Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Calabasas, Los Angel Local Time: 08:44 PM Posts: 116 Offline	"Just keep in mind that adding only a rear swar bar will definently make the car have more oversteer. Now whether this just dials out the understeer or actually causes oversteer I don't know" The former statement isn't always true. But what you say about it dialing out understeer, that is what everybody is looking for I believe. This car is very neutral for the way it come stock, but if you drive the car quick enough, you will experience some understeer. If any of these bars take away the understeer further and do not add oversteer, i will look into the upgrade. I am certain a rear sway bar alone won't be able to achieve this, a smaller front sway bar would have to complement if there is all-out tuning happening. -Anto DS/B MINI Cooper S Got It: 2/9/03. It's All Excellent.

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Jan 26th, 2003, 09:01 AM	#22 (permalink)
coops41 MINI2 Regular Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: melbourne Local Time: 02:44 PM Posts: 115 Offline	SWAYBAR sounds great for autox and low speed manouvers but will it make the car to taily in high speed situations, especially track work on flowing curcuits. Phillip island here in oz springs to mind as there are a couple of flat out 180kph corners, if you have to get off the throttle 4 some reason you dont really want the back coming around at that speed.Anyone tried a rear bar on a quick circuit?

Jan 30th, 2003, 12:09 AM	#23 (permalink)
sadales MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Indiana Local Time: 11:44 PM Posts: 46 Offline	I'm planning to install the RDR rear sway bar on my 2003 MCS this weekend. The instructions say to put the car up on four jackstands. I can identify some good spots for jackstands at the front of the car, but where do you put them at the rear, especially if you are working on the suspension? I'll be installing coilovers in the next couple of months too, so this will be a recurring problem. The only places that I am sure are safe for the rear of the car are the two lifting blocks, but I'll need those spots to jack the car up in the first place. Help! Scott 90STX

Feb 27th, 2003, 10:45 AM	#25 (permalink)
L8 Apex Posts: n/a	Just keep in mind that adding only a rear swar bar will definently make the car have more oversteer. Now whether this just dials out the understeer or actually causes oversteer I don't know. On a front engine rear wheel drive BMW M3, it acutally handles better if you put on a stiff bar in the front, and no bar in the rear. This way it loses the on the throttle high speed oversteer. Now, granted, the mini is front engine front wheel drive, but the basic physics remain the same. Personally, I wouldn't want a street car that oversteers...thats just something I wouldn't want to be driving. -Andrew

Mar 6th, 2003, 12:42 AM	#26 (permalink)
Romhog My mini is my casket Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Local Time: 11:44 PM Posts: 511 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by L8 Apex Just keep in mind that adding only a rear swar bar will definently make the car have more oversteer. Now whether this just dials out the understeer or actually causes oversteer I don't know thats my biggest question. All I want to know is, does this cancel out the understeer, or does it take it so far as to making you a pro race driver, to keep it in check. I think the car is about as well balanced as I have ever felt in ANY car. What is the sway going to do? too much , just right?

Mar 25th, 2003, 10:41 AM	#28 (permalink)
mikehome1 MINI2 Regular Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: cincinnati Local Time: 11:44 PM Posts: 119 Offline	Swaybar-does anyone market a rear swaybar that doesn't need to be removed to adjust.Further I'm concerned with the squeak comments on this thread

Mar 25th, 2003, 10:50 AM	#29 (permalink)
Albert MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Costa Mesa, CA Local Time: 09:44 PM Posts: 303 Offline	For squeak concerns, look into the H-sport swaybars. They have grease zerks on each of the bushings.

Mar 25th, 2003, 11:09 AM	#30 (permalink)
Romhog My mini is my casket Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Local Time: 11:44 PM Posts: 511 Offline	where can you buy that one?

Mar 25th, 2003, 12:41 PM	#31 (permalink)
Albert MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Costa Mesa, CA Local Time: 09:44 PM Posts: 303 Offline	You can check out the products at www.h-sport.com If you want to order, call Hotchkis directly at (562) 907-7757 and ask for J.C. (tell him Albert sent ya!)

Mar 26th, 2003, 12:53 AM	#32 (permalink)
Albert MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Costa Mesa, CA Local Time: 09:44 PM Posts: 303 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by obehave Might want to specify that this would not be just any old grease you'll be pumping in there. I'm curious what they'd recommend have you heard? Good question. I'll ask them later this week (going to Hotchkis this Thursday).

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Mar 26th, 2003, 09:15 AM	#33 (permalink)
Albert MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Costa Mesa, CA Local Time: 09:44 PM Posts: 303 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by obehave Very cool. Do me a favor and give the H-Sport strut brace a good look if they have one on display. I'm interested in it and I'd like some feedback. TIA No problem, although I'm not much of a strut bar connoisseur, so other than "it looks neat", I don't know how valuable my observation will be

Mar 27th, 2003, 03:59 AM	#34 (permalink)
TBDAugs MINI2 Regular Join Date: Apr 2002 Local Time: 10:44 PM Posts: 179 Offline	I raced the Mini Cooper with stock sport suspension last year in H Stock. The car had BAD power on understeer coming out of hard corners, particularly if you came in hot. The wheels would spin. This on Yokohama A520's. This year I bought a new Mini Cooper to race in H Stock with the sport suspension plus, which adds a bit stiffer spring and a beefier rear sway (and front), then added Koni sports rear and set them at half way. I also now run Hoosiers, and the car is marvelously neutral with just a little oversteer on demand. Adding a stiffer rear sway will help neutralize the understeer inherent in this, and many small front wheel drive cars, but you would have only noticed it, IMHO, under hard racing conditions on power on out of slow corners. Limited slip differential would have been a nicer add so as to help the wheel slip on power on, which would also help the understeer...but it's not allowed in H stock class. AXAugs

Apr 2nd, 2003, 09:29 AM	#35 (permalink)
Albert MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Costa Mesa, CA Local Time: 09:44 PM Posts: 303 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by obehave Might want to specify that this would not be just any old grease you'll be pumping in there. I'm curious what they'd recommend have you heard? OK, I forgot about this thread so my apologies for the delayed response. They recommend synthetic chassis lube. On another note, H-Sport ended up using my car last week for some R&D b/c I was running 17" OZ Superleggeras, which they know is a real popular rim with Coopers. They wanted to see if I would end up w/any rubbing using their H-Sport springs. While they were at it, they also installed a set of front and rear sway bars too! More to be posted on a separate thread!

Apr 2nd, 2003, 09:34 AM	#36 (permalink)
Albert MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Costa Mesa, CA Local Time: 09:44 PM Posts: 303 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by obehave Looks neat will do fine. Also if they think it will clear a BMP intake without any problems. I didn't get a chance to actually see a sway bar b/c they were running behind a bit on production. I also asked Mark Hotchkis about fitment over the BMP, and although he wasn't 100% sure, he did mention that if it's anything like the K&N Typhoon (in terms of clearances) that the bar should work. (p.s. they know that the strut bar will work with the K&N Typhoon kit, b/c the MCS they R&D'd on for the strut bar had the kit on at the time)