[harold]

I am consider to purchase H&R sway bars. It seems there are 18mm and 19mm rear sway bar. Anyone notice a major different for the 1mm different?

Thanks!
Harold

[robfenn]

It might not sound a lot but the torsional stiffness will be greatly increased. I don't have the official equation to hand but i'll estimate the 19mm bar will have 35% more stiffness.

-Rob

[Casey]

we use both of the bars at the shop - one of our project cars has the 18mm and one has the 19mm....we are still working on getting the suspension just right on the car with the 19mm bar, but with the 18mm bar the car is perfect - we have had several other racers besides us in the car as well and feel the car is perfectly balanced. Remember a sway bar is only part of correctly setting the suspension up - and it seems that many people like to recommend the largest bar out there in hopes that it will make up for everything else...it won't. Additionally with some of the larger bars you will run into situations where you will get oversteer...99% of people out there have no idea how to handle oversteer properlly and will end up some wrecking their beloved MINIs. I have the 19mm on my personal car and the other weekend at the track i was able to get the back end to do whatever I want...but the key is - it was doing what i wanted when i wanted it to...no the other way around.

We have a special going on right now with the 18mm bars for $146.25...the 19mm bars are $179.95. Check them out at PROMINI.com

[obehave]

Quote: Originally Posted by Casey

we use both of the bars at the shop - one of our project cars has the 18mm and one has the 19mm....we are still working on getting the suspension just right on the car with the 19mm bar, but with the 18mm bar the car is perfect - we have had several other racers besides us in the car as well and feel the car is perfectly balanced. Remember a sway bar is only part of correctly setting the suspension up - and it seems that many people like to recommend the largest bar out there in hopes that it will make up for everything else...it won't. Additionally with some of the larger bars you will run into situations where you will get oversteer...99% of people out there have no idea how to handle oversteer properlly and will end up some wrecking their beloved MINIs. I have the 19mm on my personal car and the other weekend at the track i was able to get the back end to do whatever I want...but the key is - it was doing what i wanted when i wanted it to...no the other way around.

We have a special going on right now with the 18mm bars for $146.25...the 19mm bars are $179.95. Check them out at PROMINI.com

Which setting? The H&Rs have 2 for the rear don't they?
Also, are you running the H&R front as well? That would make a difference in balance too.

[Casey]

Both project cars are running the 27mm Front bar as well - my personal car so far only has the 19mm rear...all rear bars are set on the stiffest settings...before the next track event i'll be stepping mine down to the softer setting...i find that on the street the stiffer settings works best and on the track I have a feeling the softer will be better as on the track at high speeds you have alot more control over the rear of the car then you do on the street.

[obehave]

Quote: Originally Posted by Casey

Both project cars are running the 27mm Front bar as well - my personal car so far only has the 19mm rear...all rear bars are set on the stiffest settings...before the next track event i'll be stepping mine down to the softer setting...i find that on the street the stiffer settings works best and on the track I have a feeling the softer will be better as on the track at high speeds you have alot more control over the rear of the car then you do on the street.

Thanks Casey.
I have the 22mm Alta bar on the softest setting.
At my limited skill level it works pretty well for me. But then I'm used to it.

[Casey]

have you used it on a track? If it has similar characteristics to the H&R bars - which I'm guessing it does - since Alta uses H&R to make their springs - i'm guessing they may also use them to make their bars(but not positive)..but on a track I would personal refuse to use a 22mm solid bar. On the street is one thing as the speeds, corning speeds, braking points, etc are drastically different then on a track, it may be alright but on a track I would be very leary of it...with my 19mm bar I can very easily get the back end to come around if i want - but 99% of the time it does exactly what i want - the car 4 wheel drifts coming out of corners perfectly...the car doesn't really push at all unless i heavily overcook it into a tight corner..but in sweepers i have zero push....now on the street you want a car that pushes...it really is not a safe vehicle on public streets if the car has oversteer....push in a front wheel drive car is easy to handle - as everyone's instict to correct the problem is correct - lift off the gas...but the problem is 99% of drivers out there will also do the same thing when the car is oversteering...then your just hoping there is no traffic near by for you to take out and you only take out your own car.

a 22mm bar is really a dedicated autox bar...not a street bar or a track use bar.

[NearlyNN]

Quote: Originally Posted by Casey

Both project cars are running the 27mm Front bar as well - my personal car so far only has the 19mm rear...all rear bars are set on the stiffest settings...before the next track event i'll be stepping mine down to the softer setting...i find that on the street the stiffer settings works best and on the track I have a feeling the softer will be better as on the track at high speeds you have alot more control over the rear of the car then you do on the street.

Casey, sounds like the "rule of thumb" I've been given by a racer/suspension friend: "If the track is fast go softer, if more technical go stiffer". Of course, rain/wet also calls for softer. I have a 3 position Mini-madness rear bar and have used all 3 settings at the track.

I also have the H & R front sway bar. Question: Have you ever set it to the stiff setting. I imagine if you have, you would have the rear on full stiff. Just curious what has been your experience with the front at full stiff. I haven't done it yet.

[rasp]

I have the Madness 22mm Swaybar and totally impressed with it...
http://www.mini-madness.com/index.as...PROD&ProdID=59

[obehave]

Quote: Originally Posted by Casey

have you used it on a track? If it has similar characteristics to the H&R bars - which I'm guessing it does - since Alta uses H&R to make their springs - i'm guessing they may also use them to make their bars(but not positive)..but on a track I would personal refuse to use a 22mm solid bar. On the street is one thing as the speeds, corning speeds, braking points, etc are drastically different then on a track, it may be alright but on a track I would be very leary of it...with my 19mm bar I can very easily get the back end to come around if i want - but 99% of the time it does exactly what i want - the car 4 wheel drifts coming out of corners perfectly...the car doesn't really push at all unless i heavily overcook it into a tight corner..but in sweepers i have zero push....now on the street you want a car that pushes...it really is not a safe vehicle on public streets if the car has oversteer....push in a front wheel drive car is easy to handle - as everyone's instict to correct the problem is correct - lift off the gas...but the problem is 99% of drivers out there will also do the same thing when the car is oversteering...then your just hoping there is no traffic near by for you to take out and you only take out your own car.

a 22mm bar is really a dedicated autox bar...not a street bar or a track use bar.

Well, since I only auto-x a little and don't really push the car hard on the street I guess I'm OK.
On some of the bigger courses where I may enter sweepers at 45-50 MPH the car generally still pushes. If I screw up I can get into oversteer but you can do that with anything if you F up bad enough. Not that I've done that .
I'll probably never get to do real track time and if so it won't be competitively. Hopefully just for some learning experience. I'll assume I'd be with someone more than qualified to show me the right thing to do.

Good stuff as usual Casey, thanks.

[Casey]

obehave - cheers bud

nearlynn - the H&R front sway bar is not adjustable - it only has single attachment points.

[NearlyNN]

Quote: Originally Posted by Casey

nearlynn - the H&R front sway bar is not adjustable - it only has single attachment points.

Casey, too many companies with "H's". I have the H-Sport fonrt swaybar. Just checked and saw that the soft setting is just +16% and the firm setting is +27%. Really not a huge deal, especially compared to the percentage increases that rear bars effect.

S, I guess I'll be testing and tuning with the front next time out.

[harold]

Dear Mini friends,

If I keep my stock suspension of the Cooper S sport package. Would it be better to go with 18mm or 19mm? Can anyone tell me what size is the original rear sway bar for cooper S?

Thanks a lot for your information, as a newbie, I really appreciate that.

Harold

[LMB]

Can you fit swar bars with stock springs?

Sorry but this is all new to me.

[rasp]

Quote: Originally Posted by LMB

Can you fit swar bars with stock springs?

Sorry but this is all new to me.

Yep!

[LMB]

Quote: Originally Posted by rasp

Yep!

cheers.

[rasp]

LMB
Probably better than doing the springs first in my opinion, a massive difference in cornering, the oversteer is far better than understeer, I think a great upgrade no matter what one you buy...

[LMB]

Quote: Originally Posted by rasp

LMB
Probably better than doing the springs first in my opinion, a massive difference in cornering, the oversteer is far better than understeer, I think a great upgrade no matter what one you buy...

My only concern is bottoming out, I drive over speed bumps every day.

[rasp]

The Swaybar will not make your car any lower and makes hardly no difference to ride quality but I know exactly what your saying about these pigging speed bumps...

[obehave]

Quote: Originally Posted by harold

Dear Mini friends,

If I keep my stock suspension of the Cooper S sport package. Would it be better to go with 18mm or 19mm? Can anyone tell me what size is the original rear sway bar for cooper S?

Thanks a lot for your information, as a newbie, I really appreciate that.

Harold

OEM on mine was 17mm.

Like a lot of the above thread indicates what to use has some to do with what you plan.
Me I'd say go with the 19mm.