[mike58]

My front tyres are totaly worn at 8200 miles ( Pirelli 3000 175/65/15s).
I can't believe how quickly they've worn so I fancy a change all round.
Any preferences in the 175--195 size range, how are your Dunlop standard 200 tyres wearing?
I feel like moving to 195/50/15 and I do realise this is a smaller diameter, the tyres seem to be more plentiful in this size and ironicaly cheaper than 175/65s!!
Let me know if you@ve made any changes and if your tyre wear characteristics are similar or different.
Dr Mike

[ezrally]

My '92 Mitsubishi Galant VR4 has 185/60-15s as the OEM size. There were and are gobs of choices of tyres in this size from Bridgestones (OEM again) to top of the line Michelins (I consider them the best/"roundest" tyres made.
I don't know about the exact fitment (speedo,ride height,etc) but they must be close for 15" use on MINIs.

[willibobs]

Noticed an advert in yesterdays paper, atseuromaster have an offer on, Michelin Energy XH1 195/60 HR 15 for £49.99 a piece plus valve and balancing.
I'm off to get two to replace two of my Pirelli P3000 175/65s which were rubbish and wore out in under 10,000 miles.
The offer runs until the end of July.

[AidenL]

The Pirellis arent even grippy to compensate for their bad wear rate !!

[willibobs]

Just got back with my two new Michelin 195/60 HR 15s, £114 for the pair fitted absolute bargain! I had located some Goodyear Eagle Venturas for a smidge under 67 quid each but then I was browsing through the paper and saw the offer at ATS. Normally sods law dictates that if there are any decent offers on tyres when you need them they're always for sizes you don't want so I was well chuffed to see the 195s on offer. They certainly look the part. I'll leave the 175s on the front for the moment to wear them out then replace them with 195s. Going off the first set of tyres it should only be another 6 months before the Pirellis are shagged.
Very disappointed by the Pirellis, I had P600s on my previous car and quite liked them in fact I preferred them to Dunlop D8s but these P3000s are a complete waste of time. Why were they selected as original equipment in the first place? 175s are too narrow anyway for a car with such ability. Maybe BMW have a nice agreement with Pirelli since they seem to be the only manufacturer of 175/65 by 15s with a H speed-rating.

[mike58]

You may inadvertantly upset the balance of the car by fitting different sizes and radii on front and rear axles.
Why choose 195/60? if you go up two width sizes you should come down two sidewall sizes eg 65>60>55.

[KenL]

Quote:

Originally posted by mike58
You may inadvertantly upset the balance of the car by fitting different sizes and radii on front and rear axles.
Why choose 195/60? if you go up two width sizes you should come down two sidewall sizes eg 65>60>55.

Why's that then?

[iaa]

Quote:

Originally posted by mike58
You may inadvertantly upset the balance of the car by fitting different sizes and radii on front and rear axles.
Why choose 195/60? if you go up two width sizes you should come down two sidewall sizes eg 65>60>55.

As you can see from the wheel and tyre package FAQ:

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthrea...&threadid=3493

195/60-15 is actually a closer match to the original 175/65-15 wheel diameter than 195/55-15.

Ian

[willibobs]

Quote:

Originally posted by mike58
You may inadvertantly upset the balance of the car by fitting different sizes and radii on front and rear axles.
Why choose 195/60? if you go up two width sizes you should come down two sidewall sizes eg 65>60>55.

As iaa has correctly stated the 195/60 is the closest to the original 175/65 in terms of diameter. Remember that the aspect ratio is quoted as a percentage of the tread width so the wider you go the larger 5% of that width is going to be. On a narrower tyre like a 155 then going up to a 175 would probably require two steps down in aspect ratio.

I think you are splitting hairs when you talk about upsetting the balance of the car due to differing radii, the difference is only 3.25mm, (175mm x 0.65=113.75 vs 195mm x 0.6=117mm) bearing in mind that the tread depth on a new tyre is around 7mm and the legal limit is 1.6mm giving a range of 5.4mm. You only really need to worry about different diameters on the same axle i.e. left and right as opposed to front and back. Remember a lot of high performance rear-wheel drive cars have different sized tyres on the front and back.

[mike58]

You are right and I am wrong re the diameters + 6.5 mm going to 195/60 v -13mm going to 195/55.
BUT there must be a discrepancy in the difference between the behaviour in front v rear axles if you have sl diff radii and differennt sidewall stiffness.As an owner of a 911 that has 205/55/16 fronts and 245/45/16 rears believe me if you start altering the ratios and diameters things get very interesting at the limit!!.
However the ideal set up may be wider fronts and narrower rears ie. the opposite of a 911 so let us know if you have found the magic combination, I recall earlier track minis set up this way.
I still think the mini2 needs quality rubber and not the nonsence "energy" crap that is standard fitment, so I look forward to hearing further posts on everyones choice as it WILL be soon if 7K is an average front tyre lifespan.
Not always right but always opinionated Mike.

[willibobs]

I agree wider tyres at the front would be good so that you can get the power down better and give more grip when cornering not to mention a better feel on initial turn-in, although for all round grip then the same size tyres all round would be best. Having narrower tyres at the back than at the front would only be useful if you're trying to induce lift-off oversteer.
Like I say I only have different sizes on the front and back so I can wear out the 175s before I replace them with proper tyres. The car doesn't seem appreciably different in terms of handling at the moment but I'm sure it'll improve considerably when I get the 195s on the front.

I suspect highpowered RWD cars have wider tyres at the back purely for the purpose of traction, equally wide tyres at the front would give little real benefit (since they're already pretty wide as tyres go) and in fact would probably be detrimental with regards to reduced steering lock.

[lightbody]

>> Why were they selected as original equipment in
>> the first place? 175s are too narrow anyway for
>> a car with such ability.

They were selected precisely BECAUSE the car has such ability!! Most of the roadtests I read at launchtime praised the handling of the standard 15" over the 16" wheels - Grip does not equal handling ability and can very often spoil the handling and fun of a car.

A car with little ability is not made good by giving it lots of grip (as I witnessed recently in a new Vectra hire car with 205 tyres....).

Do you really think you know better than the MINI's developers after their development & testing?!!?

- Rob (happy with just 15" and 175!")

[Red & White Cooper 2]

Concerning tyre wear, I've only covered 2,700 miles with my P3000s but they've got 6mm of tread at the front and 6.5mm at the rear, so no sign of excessive wear.

I've found the grip to be fine - I run out of courage before I run out of grip, though I did get the tyres to squeal the other week cornering very hard.

Those posting on this forum are probably not concerned with invalidating their warranty, but fitting non-standard size tyres may do this.

Like Mike 58, I would find any information on the 175 Dunlops or Michelins fitted to some cars helpful come replacement time.

[lightbody]

11,000 hard miles here on Dunlop SP 3000s and there appears to still be a lot of life left in the rear tyres and a fair bit left in the fronts too.

No complaints at all about these tyres and will replace with same.

[Red & White Cooper 2]

Thanks for the info lightbody. I read in EVO that a Dunlop tyre was selected for the Mini Cooper Challenge series, though the SP Sport 200E was quoted. Given the most common fitment seems to be the Pirelli, it would be interesting to know why the Dunlop was chosen, and what's the difference between the 200E and the 3000 you have. Must visit the Dunlop web site.

[mike58]

I have posted many comments on the virtues of the narrow tyre and standard spec set up, the handling as opposed to outright grip is sweet and balanced, my initial comments on this thread are to hear owners with the15 wheels experience re tyre wear and handling characteristics. Bigger ain't always better

[willibobs]

Quote:

Originally posted by lightbody
>> Why were they selected as original equipment in
>> the first place? 175s are too narrow anyway for
>> a car with such ability.

They were selected precisely BECAUSE the car has such ability!! Most of the roadtests I read at launchtime praised the handling of the standard 15" over the 16" wheels - Grip does not equal handling ability and can very often spoil the handling and fun of a car.

A car with little ability is not made good by giving it lots of grip (as I witnessed recently in a new Vectra hire car with 205 tyres....).

Do you really think you know better than the MINI's developers after their development & testing?!!?

- Rob (happy with just 15" and 175!")

It seems the tyres ability runs out long before I get near the full capability of the cars handling, which undermines the fact that the MINI does indeed have a superb chassis and great handling ability. Don't get me wrong I love nothing more than out-handling scruffy Nova SR's with huge alloys on, extra rubber is no substitute for a great chassis but it is a good compliment to it.
Maybe the Dunlops are better but these Pirellis really are bobbins and do not inspire confidence in the wet.
As for MINI's development and testing they managed to perfect some interesting features such as the automatic lane-change system (only works on movements to the left), the totally useless remote boot release mechanism, the removable guttering etc etc.

[ricardo]

I need to replace my front tyres this week. I've covered about 13,000 miles on the original Pirelli P3000s. Rears are OK so not going to alter size of tyre this time around. However, I'd like to hear about any alternatives to the Pirellis that others have tried and would recommend (or avoid). The tyre dealer I went to yesterday was pushing me to stick with the Pirelli P3000 saying that they'll give better wear than the Dunlop SP200.

[mike58]

It all depends on what you want from the tyres.
Michelin traditionaly give good milage, but the standard equip tyres -- Pirelli/Michelin /Dunlop are all economy fitments and I think that people should try a decent perf. tyre compound on the 15" rim before specing 17s.
My choices for handling and grip would be Yokohama, Toyo and Bridgestone.
If you can get same size in these makes they are def worth a try ,if not go to 185/60/15 ( rare size) or the widely avail 195/55/15.
Mike
PS I've spec my new Mini with 17s purely for looks but intend to narrow the tyre spec when they wear out (5K miles top!!)

[ricardo]

Thanks for the advice Mike. A brief trawl through the Toyo, Yokohama and Bridgestone websites has drawn a complete blank as far as standard size is concerned. I'll speak to some more dealers to find out what's available. Anyone else with any suggestions or experience of tyres they'd recommend? I'm especially intersted in hearing from people who have fitted alternative rubber but have stuck to the standard dimensions.