EBC pads & rotors. Spongy feel??

[brisvegasmini]

G'day all,

I recently installed new EBC Greenstuff pads and Turbogroove rotors front and back.

Initially I feared they were a little weak, but I waited patiently assuming it was part of the bedding in process.

Now, I have completed 700km and last weekend even gave them a serious brake-in completing a series of aggressive slow downs from 100-20kph. After about 8, the brakes were starting to fail so I simply continued on for cool down drive.

Unfortunately, I must report that the initial bite appears soft (both when hot and cold), certainly less than the OEM brakes. What is especially prominent is the far softer pedal feel and greater pedal travel required to get them to bite properly. The increased travel is also making heel-toe more difficult.

I took the car to Mini today to get them to bleed the brakes, change the fluid and inspect the pads. The dealer agreed they felt softer than OEM but despite the above, it hasn't changed them. He claimed that aftermarket pads and rotors often feel different but it doubt they are supposed to feel softer.

I haven't used slotted rotors or EBC before, however they haven't impressed me thus far. Does anyone else have any experience with this problem.

James

PS I also just installed all the mods below.
The GO is amazing!! It's just the STOP which is unimpressive.

[scooperman_uk]

ive heard not so good things about green stuff. i stayed away from them for my recent pads and discs upgrade.

[Richard Crofts]

I had Greenstuff on my old classics and other vehicles and they were great. However I have heard some folks on here have had 'issues'. One person even had a total pad failure with them disintergrating and seperating from the metal back, perhaps a one off but heck thats a hell of a one off!

Personally I would suggest trying mintex m1144s or if you drive really hard and do trackdays or autocross maybe go for m1155s. I have heard good things of both and I intend to go for m1144s all round and grooved discs, might choose the EBC groove and dimpled but not decided yet.

Basically any performance pad once warm (on some pads its hard to get them warmed up, the m1155s are track and very fast road I believe so they will have crap bite when cold) should bite better than the stock one unless the surface has polished or you have got contanination on them. Try braided lines to reduce the spongyness too (be aware you cant tell when braided lines are worn so I suggest replacing them regularaly, perhaps every 18 months just to be sure, but they should wear like stock items.

R

[wo53 rks]

IMO the greenstuff pads are great,i have them on all corners of my works and they have been great,keeping up with a friends brembo breaks on his mini!(till my discs were glowing orange)and they were still stopping. Its the dimpled and grooved discs i have the issue with,i dont believe them to be as good as some grooved zimmermann,which i have just put on the rear, i still have the ebc discs on the front,and since i have changed my fluid(dot 5) they have been a lot better.Next time i will however go for the zimms.

[NickG]

I have said this in other posts but I have just replaced my front EBC pad and disk setup well before they were worn out because the performance wasn't there. They were even worse in winter temperatures. I think you give a good description of how the EBC combination feels. Like others I think the problem is with the discs not the pads.

[roland2003]

EBC discs+greenstuff = much worse braking than stock . Everytime a car comes in with this you have to drive /brake very gently to avoid total loss of brakes. Check out our GTT Spiroslot discs which (due to the square section grooves) 'bite' into the pad more + our level 3 pads . This will pull you up like nothing else short of monster discs & DS3000 pads.
Regards Roland GTT

[scooperman_uk]

i guess thats what i was trying to say. but couldnt remember the details from the conversation i had with roland.

[brisvegasmini]

Thanks for the input guys.

Another bit of info that might help.
When the car is stopped, the pedal is also relatively soft to press (even when not trying to brake). If you try hard, you can press the pedal to the floor. I don't think I could do that before upgrading??

I will try calling the EBC rep tomorrow to get his input. The problem is that the brakes work, just not as well as I had hoped. I want the stiff, high feedback pedal feel I used to have.

If all EBC setups are like this, I suppose I will put up with it for a while (certainly not buying a new brake setup whilst the current one is 1 month old). I am hoping however that there is a problem, which, once fixed will give me the brakes I was expecting.

James

[brisvegasmini]

Quote: Originally Posted by NickG (original)

I have said this in other posts but I have just replaced my front EBC pad and disk setup well before they were worn out because the performance wasn't there. They were even worse in winter temperatures. I think you give a good description of how the EBC combination feels. Like others I think the problem is with the discs not the pads.

Nick,
What did you replace the brakes with?? Did the firm, responsive pedal feel return? Did you ever have to change the lines etc? Did you mention the concerns to EBC?

Cheers,
James (BVM)

[NickG]

Hi

I changed to a front/rear GTT spiroslot setup: http://www.gtt.uk.com/brakes.asp

Subjectivly I think the feel is much better, and much closer to stock, although with added performance.

With the EBC I felt there was a lot of pedal travel with not a lot happening then you would get the majority of braking force as you pressed the pedal hard.

With the GTT you press the pedal gently you get gentle braking, you press firmly you get hard braking, they are very progressive.

I'm no engineer and couldn't say why that is other than the differnt materials used I guess.

I didn't ever raise it with EBC or the company I bought them from, I just figured that I made a bad choice, they still worked as brakes, just not as well as they could have.

I'm running the standard lines, I'm not sure if Roland from GTT upgraded the fluid at the same time as he swaped my discs/pads or not, I forgot to ask.

[scooperman_uk]

u get new fluid with the spirot brake package, well i certainly did..

[ButtonIt]

I've got EBC discs and Mintex pads, I don't like it at all, but having paid for them I'm reluctant to get rid. Stock stuff felt much better IMO

Disappointed.

[roland2003]

Hi guys, the soft pedal after some hard braking is the fluid nearly boiling. TBH using higher grade fluid or changing lines makes next to no difference. Aside from monster brakes the most effective way of preventing boil ,is by using discs and pads which require less pedal pressure and less time on the brake pedal. This is the only way Ive found to make up for undersized discs&calipers. For example on a Renault 5 on stock brakes I might get 1-2 laps before boil using 'Emu's Broadcasting Companys Greenstuff' or Mintex 1144 but with DS3000 it will not boil all day (just!)
Best Regards Roland GT Tuning

[ButtonIt]

So basically, a certain midland based tuner sold me a complete pile of shoite? They told me it would improve my brakes and it hasn't (and boiled my fluid after only three successive hard applications in a row at the roundabouts in Milton Keynes)



What do I do now? Put stock stuff back on and sell the EBC discs and Mintex pads as used on ebay?

[scooperman_uk]

change the pads and keep the discs? any doubt give roland a call im sure he can suggest an alternative method.