[GTT 280]

Quote: Originally Posted by ScottyBoy230 (original)

Quick question, Im soon getting a set of AP's fitted what will be a good choice of Fluid to use with these

Cheers

will you be doing track days?

Cheers,
K.

[Richard Crofts]

Anything thats uprated, especially if your not doing regular trackdays. Good track day fluid is expensive but normal AP sport fluids should cope fine with most road drivers and even with a good portion of the MINI track day artists out there...theres just a few who are really big pedal hitters who might need some super dooper fluid like the motul600s and things on a BBK to stop it boiling....Bhozar LOL

The AP kit should keep a half decent uprated fluid from boiling even on a trackday. Try lohens upgraded AP stuff

[GRSmotorsport]

Quote: Originally Posted by ScottyBoy230 (original)

Quick question, Im soon getting a set of AP's fitted what will be a good choice of Fluid to use with these

Cheers

You normally get fluid supplied when you buy AP brakes

[ScottyBoy]

Hey guy's to date i haven done a track day but i do intend to do a few in the future as soon as i change job's!

but it will only be like maybe 2 or 3 a year so nothing spectacular, ive just been looking at that AP stuff from lohen but to charge nearly £9 for delivery well thats the price of another bottle if i get some from a local company!

The AP's im getting are not brand new hence why im asking so i can pick which is best suited

[Damo]

Quote: Originally Posted by Richard Crofts (original)

Its a known fact that race sealed brakes are not designed to handle extensive amounts of road salt. Like any race part they are designed for a specific use...performance. Anything designed for the track will not stand-up to road use for the same amount of time as a road use designed part. Remember race equipent is designed to be rebuilt after a few races as a rule....road stuff is designed to last longer (but often at the detriment of performance)

Basically the issue will be that water/salt will eventually work it way past the seals and you will get corrosion behind them. This in turn will lead to issues on piston travel etc...eg a sticky piston. Anyone who has driven a tuned classic Mini with BBK will have come accross this on the road and race set-ups.

Now I am not saying that the stoptechs will fall apart within 3 weeks (far from it they are a quality bit of kit) but if placed in a side by side test for endurance of the seals/caliper with a road part you would see that the race stoptech is 9 times out of 10 going to have a problem before the road brake. That said there are lots of stoptechs driving around with big milage on them that are fine...its just a warning that out of the 2 choices a road brake will tend to last longer. Same as a non moddified engine will always last slightly longer than a modded on (the question is how much longer )

I have heard several stoptech kits and all of them have a tendancy to squeel a bit when used....more so than a road brake (its all to do with pad compounds and shims and back plates etc etc. If your lucky it will hardly happen but if your not then it can become an irritance. Any race spec brake will have a tendancy to be a bit squeely compared to a road brake, thats the way of life.

Just listen to the BTCC onboard videos when they hit the brakes....! Again the question is how pronounced this becomes on X Y or Z race brake. Some are better than others...the stoptech is one of the better ones...but the AP and brembo kits tend to be even better agin (but then there comes the slight downward turn in performance that these set-up offer due to them not being true race spec brakes)

Its a fine line and there are many choices but for me I think on the MINI the AP kits are not bad. They are cheap, parts are readily available and for 75% of MINI trackday people they will be plenty up to the job. But the porshe brakes offer the big car ventilation/cooling but in a road brake so if your a real heavy booter then they may be a good choice. But I know folks with the stoppies and they love them to the core....just be aware they have thier limitation too in terms of longevity.

Cheers for the info

StopTech : Balanced Brake Upgrades

The discs I have are the ones for the high salt environments, but naturally this may reduce the performance.

As for the Calipers regular maintenance in winter should see them through

[GTT 280]

I had the AP brakes and fried them on my first track day. I went for the GTT BBK immediately afterwards. The improvement was massive.

On road, the AP kit did not offer the BBK sensation i'd hoped for either.

Cheers,
K.

[Richard Crofts]

They are a far more lieght wieght (in cooling terms and stopping power terms) brake but as they are one of the cheapest and offer more than the JCWs thats why I am choosing them. Its a matter of brakes needed for the power of the car and drivers style. Like I said the GTT is magga sized and road competant, the stoptech is also huge but theres a nessesity to care for them a bit more than the GTT. The brembos I can't comment on...but the APs are a quality brand, cheap and easy to maintain/repair and offer more than the stock or JCW upgrade so they will do me I recon.

[ScottyBoy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Richard Crofts (original)

They are a far more lieght wieght (in cooling terms and stopping power terms) brake but as they are one of the cheapest and offer more than the JCWs thats why I am choosing them. Its a matter of brakes needed for the power of the car and drivers style. Like I said the GTT is magga sized and road competant, the stoptech is also huge but theres a nessesity to care for them a bit more than the GTT. The brembos I can't comment on...but the APs are a quality brand, cheap and easy to maintain/repair and offer more than the stock or JCW upgrade so they will do me I recon.

Thats purely my reason for getting these also and the fact im getting them cheap from a friend!

And to spend over £1000 on brakes at the mo is a no no for me, Maybe when ive had a few months of workin away and got a few grand to waste..... ohh i cant wait.

[roland2003]

...Just put a pair of BRAND NEW AP 330mmx28mm rotors up in the lathe (to skim the inner location face of the bell) ....and found the flatness of the steel rotor varies by.004" (four thou) TIR (total indicator reading). This isnt 'runout' this is 'flatness'. In other words there are high and low spot areas all around the circumference of the braking faces. Thats pretty unimpressive..,You would need to run a very aggressive pad to take the high areas down (DS3000 or Hawke Black) something road users wont be using for sure. GTT rotors are within.001" TIR for 'flatness', and fully assembled (with bell) runout .001" TIR. Also this AP kit requires you grind about 2mm thickness off the stub axle right where the balljoint is as the disc braking surface hits it and wont allow the disc to clamp up abainst the hub.(not good).
Best Regards Roland GTT

[GTT 280]

not warped either, as you state they are brand new. That is rather quite bad indeed.

The AP kit i had was the 304mm version. The rotors are £400 to replace on these.

When i first bought the AP kit i though that it would be more than enough for road use and very soft track use. How wrong i was. So i ended up paying for the AP kit and the GTT kit. False economy.

Don't be too upset with the performance you get from the 304mm AP brakes, they are a better construction than the OEM makes, but for £700 + fitting you are near on £850 and for something that does not give me what i expected this is as i say, false economy.

I admit, the GTT brakes are in excess of £1800 when you go for the ceramic option but you are looking at 341mm rotors, not 304mm (BIG difference!) and the width is 32 on the GTT kit, much thicker than AP at 26mm or Brembo at 28mm. This again, over such a large circumferenace is a lot more rotor.

The AP calipers are 4 pot, and so are the Porsche 11.45 inch calipers (OEM is one pot). The AP calipers don't have biased pistons though, unlike the Porsche calipers that have a greater piston to favour the direction of the rotor.

A much larger contact surface on the larger rotor too, with the massive caliper.

Having used OEM, AP, and GTT brakes (all in anger - i totally smoked the OEM ones!!) on a scale of 1 to 10 for performance (10 being the best) i would say OEM=3, AP = 4 ish, and GTT = around 9.

Obviously you are going to improve your braking performance by running lighter wheels, that's why i moved away from 18"'s - just too heavy really. 17" O.Z. are only 7kg at most.

So, do think before you buy the AP kit, and prob worth checking the rotor surface too

I really only think the AP kit is a placebo kit, i suggest you try before you buy if you can.

Cheers,
K.

[Richard Crofts]

Yeah but if you are not getting them for the full £800 price then they are acceptable IMO. I won't be paying £600 for mine as I have friends in high places (scotty boy sounds like his are dirt cheap as secondhand too) and I imagine we'll both fit them ourselves...therefore we will be way off the £800 fitted mark

Oh and I'm gonna do mine when my JCW pads and discs are worn so the JCW stuff would probably cost a couple of hundred to do anyhow so all I'm actually spending is a few quid more

[ScottyBoy]

Yep way off the £800 mark for me! A member on hear Coopers53 is a mechanic at Robertshaw Racing and his company have cars in the MINI Challenge and are at Donny on sunday, £300 for the brakes, and what ever he charges for fitting! This is all if he as time other wise it will be getting done back home a few days later!

Ive never boiled my OE brakes as yet although i have come to a few situations were i would of liked a bit of extra stopping power!

Im say im sure but not til there fitted that, with stainless steel hoses, some good fluid, better rotors and disc's they must be a fair bit better than OE brakes!

Saying this i have a G-Tech meter that measures 0-60 and braking distances, ill do a few runs with my standard calipers on see what braking distance i acheive from 60 then take that to donny with me and see what the difference is with the AP's.

I understand that there is alot of factors to consider when braking and constant use on a track but this is just something to compare them with!

[ScottyBoy]

For future reference where can you buy replacement rotors for the AP Brakes?

[GTT 280]

Quote: Originally Posted by ScottyBoy230 (original)

For future reference where can you buy replacement rotors for the AP Brakes?

There are a few places - just search Yahoo for AP 304mm Rotors. I know they are now about £400 for the pair.

Cheers,
K.

[GTT 280]

Quote: Originally Posted by Richard Crofts (original)

Yeah but if you are not getting them for the full £800 price then they are acceptable IMO. I won't be paying £600 for mine as I have friends in high places (scotty boy sounds like his are dirt cheap as secondhand too) and I imagine we'll both fit them ourselves...therefore we will be way off the £800 fitted mark

Oh and I'm gonna do mine when my JCW pads and discs are worn so the JCW stuff would probably cost a couple of hundred to do anyhow so all I'm actually spending is a few quid more

...then that is fair enough. But as a full price package comparison, i say the GTT is best value for money. If you're only paying a few quid for the AP's then that changes the decision somewhat. However, performance is always performance, and I still stand by my OEM=3, AP=4 and GTT=9 assessment No matter how much you pay or don't pay, that will never change.

Cheers,
K.

[ScottyBoy]

Quote: Originally Posted by GTT 270 (original)

There are a few places - just search Yahoo for AP 304mm Rotors. I know they are now about £400 for the pair.

Cheers,
K.

Thats a very high price for replacement rotors!

[ScottyBoy]

..... I cant seem to find any retailer with just replacement disc's in that size, searched and searched

[GTT 280]

..they do exist. I found them on yahoo, and was on the phone being told the exact price in less than 5 minutes. They are out there, you just need to look.

Cheers,
K.

[Damo]

People who supply the kits will be able to get just the discs, eg Lohen etc.

[Penguinracer]

I can vouch for these - superb. The only issue has been me overheating a softer compound pad which left some material on the rotor face but a few laps of the 'Ring sorted that.
I've now got race spec pads which I haven't yet fitted plus a spare set of 310 x 20 mm rotors. Neither have been needed yet!
The anodised finish on the caliphers also means there are no worries about burnt calipher paint - they're a quality job.

The 310mm rotors allows a choice of 17" wheels or bigger but you will need 18"s for the 318mm disks. I'm running 18" OZ Superleggaras which don't require spacers. My suspension is rose-jointed with Alta upper & lower control arms, rose-jointed Alta drop-links, Eibach front bar & 22mm Alta rear bar, Powerflex bushes up front ,Bilstein PSS9s and P&D camber plates. With this set-up plus a Quaife diff, l/w fly wheel & 240 bhp GTT/Hartge motor, this car can carry enough speed through corners to really give the brakes a hammering. The Tarox 10-pots have never wilted under pressure.

Stopping power is limited only by the tires. Running braided hoses & Castrol SRF plus Tarox's rotors on the back provides an excellent set-up. I have no idea why this BBK has not had a greater take-up because it is sublime.