New rear disks and pads binding - is this normal?

[Joy_MCS]

Hi,

My R53 MCS (21,000 miles) recently failed the MOT with rear disk corrosion, so I had new disks and pads fitted by a main dealer (who I had taken the car to for the MOT). They used standard OEM parts, which I have checked as correct according to my sales ivoice. After this I noticed my rear wheels were getting very dirty very quickly, and they sounded to binding at low speed. I jacked the car up and could hardly turn the rear's whereas I could easily spin the fronts for 1 to 2 turns. I assumed that this was something to do with the fitting of the new disks and pads and took it back to the dealer - this was 300 miles after the disks and pads were changed (I assumed initially that the noise was bedding in or something, as they had been fitted by a main dealer). I had to pay to have them inspected (although only a tenner as I kicked up a fuss) and the diagnosis was a siezed offside rear caliper. I argued with the dealer and said that I thought this was a strange coincidence given that the disks and pads had just been changed, and that my perception was that the two events were linked (maybe the seal had been damaged when pushed back in). They didn't agree, but BMW agreed to pay for the caliper if I paid for the labour (out of warranty). I still don't understand why both were binding if only one caliper had siezed.
Anyway, I had the caliper changed and still found the rear's to be binding, although perhaps not as bad as before. I slackened the handbrake cable off but this didn't help.
I went back to the dealer and after the car was checked I was told that this is perfectly normal - all they have done is slacken the handbrake cable adjuster so I now have 3-4 clicks rather than 2. I was also told that when I jack the car up, the dangling wheel causes the handbrake to apply slightly, hence why it seems to bind. Is this true, and if so can that cause a problem on the road?
Basically I am still not convinced that the seized caliper is unrelated to changing the disks and pads, and am also sceptical about the binding I'm left with. BTW, I kept the caliper but haven't had a propper look yet (i.e. with the piston out). Does anybody have any suggestions?

Cheers

[Buz999]

I had a silmilar problem when i had my rear discs and pads replaced. I had to take my mini back 3 times because the brakes kept squeeling/binding and seizing. After all avenues were taken ie calipers cleaned, relubed, seals replaced the only thing left to do was to try different parts. The pads were changed and this cured the problems straight away! This work wasn't carried out at the dealers and after market parts were used but after recieving much help from other forum users it turns out that some parts are slightly outside of their correct sizes leaving the manufacturing process. Mine must have been slightly too big causing constant binding and huge increase in temp causing expansion and squeal.
This may not be the problem with yours but if it continues ask dealer to check the thickness of parts are correct and if not replace and retry!
Good luck.

[Joy_MCS]

Thanks for that reply. A friend of mine was baffled by my problem and suggested that I measure the components as that was the only thing that he could think of. As I have the old caliper I can determine fairly easily what the maximum dimention of the disk and two pads can be. Do you think I should contact BMW, or should I have a higher tolerance level with my dealer first??

[Mike Edwards]

Maybe the chimps in the workshop just didn't wind the piston back in enough?

Just because it's a BMW workshop doesn't mean the staff are competent.

Happy to discuss my experiences* with anyone reading this from BMW.

*Resolved on the 2nd or 3rd attempt.

[Joy_MCS]

Yeah, I wonderded about the piston not being pushed home fully so that the self adjuster couldn't do it's job, but as they fitted a new caliper (after I complained about the binding the first time) I assumed this would be delivered from the factory 'pushed in'. Does anybody know if this is the case?

I've just wound the hadbrake adjust right out and jacked the back end up - there was definate play in the handbrake cable at both sides, but both wheels were still binding. So, the BMW 'master' technician is either useless or lied to me when he told me that the handbrake was causing the binding.

So, I think the problem is with the tolerence levels of the rear disks and pads, and nothing to do with the handbrake or caliper. In fact, I think I have paid for a new caliper when it didn't need one. I'm going to write to BMW and send them the old caliper to check.

[Buz999]

I would demand the workshop replace the parts, if this does not sort the problem then tell the dealer you are going to contact BMW with your story!
Good luck and let us know the outcome.

[Joy_MCS]

Result:
I complained to the head office for the main dealer chain after which the dealer (reluctantly) agreed to do a back to back comparrison between my car and any other on their forecourt. Prior to this I checked the binding against another R53 so I was pretty confident of the result! Anyway, we compared mine with another R53 from the garage and it was pretty clear that my rear's were sticking worse. It was interesting to see that on the 'test' car the near side rear span far more freely than the off side - does anyone know why this is (the technitian said it was something to do with bias on the handbrake, but I didn't ask too many questions). Anyway, basically I convinced them to strip down the brakes whilst I was there and inspect the guide pins. They looked OK, but I had them wet n dried just to be sure. The technitian (senior this time, who to be fair seemed pretty clued up) put them back together and they were both fine!
Aparently it was something to do with there usually been a 3mm offset, but this time they had used a 2mm offset which had cured the problem. I think it was basically that the piston was not wound back in far enough when the new disck and pads had been fitted. I had the handbrake readjusted too and this feels a lot better. So, looks like Mike had hit the nail on the head.
Also, as Mike says, just becuase they are a main dealer it doesn't mean that they are automatically right, and I would recommend not being shy at querying something you are not too sure about, or checking else where (i.e. here!).

[richg40]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mike Edwards (original)

Maybe the chimps in the workshop just didn't wind the piston back in enough?

Just because it's a BMW workshop doesn't mean the staff are competent.

Happy to discuss my experiences* with anyone reading this from BMW.

*Resolved on the 2nd or 3rd attempt.

I'm sorry but your attitude is unwarrented. i'm not interested in your experiences or opinions either to be honest. too much dealer bashing goes on on this forum for my liking, lets not forget that these 'chimps' keep the majority of the minis on here on the road. try to imagine the technology on a E65, more than your average space shuttle. cut them some slack.

[ScottyBoy]

This was an interesting read as i will be changing these soon so i no what to look for if there is any thing like this happen.

Quote: Originally Posted by richg40 (original)

I'm sorry but your attitude is unwarrented. i'm not interested in your experiences or opinions either to be honest. too much dealer bashing goes on on this forum for my liking, lets not forget that these 'chimps' keep the majority of the minis on here on the road. try to imagine the technology on a E65, more than your average space shuttle. cut them some slack.

Yes but then these "Chimps" take our money for such problems when it was not diagnosed correctly in the first place as he was told it was something that it turned out not to be!

When you work for said company you will be biased towards them.

But stuff like this can be all trial and error with it being mechanics so stuff like this would be expected, but then again not with the customers money, and a fairly easy job in fitting discs and pads is something that Shouldnt be trial and error IMO.

[ScottyBoy]

Quote: Originally Posted by richg40 (original)

I'm sorry but your attitude is unwarrented. i'm not interested in your experiences or opinions either to be honest. too much dealer bashing goes on on this forum for my liking, lets not forget that these 'chimps' keep the majority of the minis on here on the road. try to imagine the technology on a E65, more than your average space shuttle. cut them some slack.

E65 This has nothing to do with a MINI really, im sure MINI technicians would need some slack if they had to work on this but they dont! it was just his rear caliper!

[richg40]

I dont think you understand how relevent E65 is on a new mini. afterall a new shape is basically a 1 series which uses alot of early E65 technology.

What's this about 'MINI technicians'? these are a rare breed indeed. Very very few dealers have designated 'MINI technicians', as this is only truely coming into effect just recently.

And as you so quaintly put it, i'm fairly certain that the 'chimps' dont take your money and do infact see relatively little of your money.

Don't get me wrong, i feel for some of the people who have had bad experiences with thier dealers, but the ones i dont sympathize with are you ones that go on about it over and over and over in numerous threads. it gets tired.

We have a MINI in the household and it rattles like hell. Through me another banana.

[ScottyBoy]

Im all out of banana's now..... i obviously dont understand tha E65 at all.

Mikes attitude might not have been warrented but then was he wrong? because the "Chimps" didnt rewind the caliper back and i guess he's not a technician and came up with the answer in his post so if he can come up with an answer like that then they should have looked into this firstly in my eyes.

Hey im out of this, its not my problem so im not really bothered.

[MINI-Morgan]

I would mention my experience at monkey world but I dont think this is the thread for it guys!

Chimps or not, lets talk brake pads.......

I'm sure a few dealers are expecting that the pads will just bed in after a while and loosen up ok or they just dont seem so bad until they get hot. I have to say I know someone that had the problem on the Isle of Wight run and her brakes were squealing. When I looked they were red hot! Not good......

[Buz999]

Blimey this thread has gone a bit wayward!

Glad you got your brakes sorted Joy!

[Joy_MCS]

Thanks for the support, but sorry to cause such a fracas! Besides, it looks as though I have paid the price as 200 miles later I've just started the car to find that it's really really difficult to turn the wheel.... I'm assuming that my power steering pump has packed in.