[mini33]

Sorry yet another runflat question

I have read the many threads about runflats vs normal tyres & am swaying towards normal tyres but have a few issues still swaying me

Consid this is my first mini & first car with runflats i am new to this depate

Against Runflats
1. Tyre pressure checking on average twice a month & judging on how accurate on inacurate they may be the garage one can be this is annoying but a must
2. The thought that if i do use the runflat for the purpose its intended & then the thought of having to fork out for a new run flat after this, surely this is not on as that the purpose they were designed for!!! & there not cheap.
3. The many comments about runflats & there dislike to pot holes but this will also be the case of non runflats though. Also the price of repair that my friends has just had to folk out for her mini after a pott hole disaster.
4.& many more but that just a few

Against normal tyres
1. The non ability of driving on flat & the damge that can be done as i drove flat before!!
2. The thought of being stuck in the country lanes on the way to work with a flat & waiting for recovery -(
3. The thought of having no spare & no space to store a spare
4. Will the run flat system accept non runflat tyres.
5. Will the handeling/cornering be as got with normal compared to runflats
6. etc

Also would the change affect my insurance as my policy is due this weekend & will i have to notify them of the possible near future change

Any tips or your thoughts on what i should do than that will be appreciated as i'm a mini novice mechanic but learning slowly

Thanks

[MINIAC]

Checking tire pressure on a regular basis should be done regardless of what type tire you're running. Tires which aren't inflated to the proper tire pressure wear unevenly and have a shorter life.

The TPMS works for either run flat or conventional tires.

[super c00per]

im in the same boat mate!!! just pricing up tyres this week!!

[batou]

Against Runflats
1. Tyre pressure checking on average twice a month & judging on how accurate on inaccurate they may be the garage one can be this is annoying but a must

You should check them more often that that anyway.

2. The thought that if i do use the runflat for the purpose its intended & then the thought of having to fork out for a new run flat after this, surely this is not on as that the purpose they were designed for!!! & there not cheap.

I didn't have time to wait for a internet price and had to replace a runflat at a local tyre shop. £160 per corner, nice! You can't even repair them either

3. The many comments about runflats & there dislike to pot holes but this will also be the case of non runflats though. Also the price of repair that my friends has just had to folk out for her mini after a pott hole disaster.

Pot holes will still do the same damage regardless of tyres. Ride quality is equivalent to concrete too..

4.& many more but that just a few

Against normal tyres
1. The non ability of driving on flat & the damge that can be done as i drove flat before!!

You still can! One can of holts tyre weld and a compressor in the boot...

2. The thought of being stuck in the country lanes on the way to work with a flat & waiting for recovery -(

... for situations like above when you can't wait for recovery.

3. The thought of having no spare & no space to store a spare

Again, tyre weld for emergency situations.

4. Will the run flat system accept non runflat tyres.

There is no "run flat system" as such, yes the runflats fit the rims and yes they work with the pressure sensor, but then so do normal tyres.

5. Will the handeling/cornering be as got with normal compared to runflats

I changed to Goodyear Eagle GSD3 215/40/R17 and I wouldn't believe someone who said this but seriously, the handling in damp conditions is probably as good as the dry handling was with Pirelli Euforia Runflats!!! Handling is massively improved.

I also saved 5KG's of unsprung weight switching to the 215/40 profile. Turn in is still just as sharp but the grip is monumental, my MCS has 30/40hp up on standard and has less understeer than it did with runflats and less power!!!

6. You can repair some puntures on normal tyres rather having to bin the whole tyre.

7. Much cheaper I can get 4 top end Goodyears for less than two Dunlop/Pirelli runflats.

8. Ride quality is much improved, doesn't crash into bumps. Less bang and more thud if you get me?

9. Better braking, improved grip and a little more flex in the tyres help braking.... a lot.

[mini33]

Quote: Originally Posted by MINIAC (original)

Checking tire pressure on a regular basis should be done regardless of what type tire you're running. Tires which aren't inflated to the proper tire pressure wear unevenly and have a shorter life.

The TPMS works for either run flat or conventional tires.

I realise that but every two weeks or less is a bit ott isn't it

[mini33]

Quote: Originally Posted by batou (original)

Against Runflats
1. Tyre pressure checking on average twice a month & judging on how accurate on inaccurate they may be the garage one can be this is annoying but a must

You should check them more often that that anyway.

2. The thought that if i do use the runflat for the purpose its intended & then the thought of having to fork out for a new run flat after this, surely this is not on as that the purpose they were designed for!!! & there not cheap.

I didn't have time to wait for a internet price and had to replace a runflat at a local tyre shop. £160 per corner, nice! You can't even repair them either

3. The many comments about runflats & there dislike to pot holes but this will also be the case of non runflats though. Also the price of repair that my friends has just had to folk out for her mini after a pott hole disaster.

Pot holes will still do the same damage regardless of tyres. Ride quality is equivalent to concrete too..

4.& many more but that just a few

Against normal tyres
1. The non ability of driving on flat & the damge that can be done as i drove flat before!!

You still can! One can of holts tyre weld and a compressor in the boot...

2. The thought of being stuck in the country lanes on the way to work with a flat & waiting for recovery -(

... for situations like above when you can't wait for recovery.

3. The thought of having no spare & no space to store a spare

Again, tyre weld for emergency situations.

4. Will the run flat system accept non runflat tyres.

There is no "run flat system" as such, yes the runflats fit the rims and yes they work with the pressure sensor, but then so do normal tyres.

5. Will the handeling/cornering be as got with normal compared to runflats

I changed to Goodyear Eagle GSD3 215/40/R17 and I wouldn't believe someone who said this but seriously, the handling in damp conditions is probably as good as the dry handling was with Pirelli Euforia Runflats!!! Handling is massively improved.

I also saved 5KG's of unsprung weight switching to the 215/40 profile. Turn in is still just as sharp but the grip is monumental, my MCS has 30/40hp up on standard and has less understeer than it did with runflats and less power!!!

6. You can repair some puntures on normal tyres rather having to bin the whole tyre.

7. Much cheaper I can get 4 top end Goodyears for less than two Dunlop/Pirelli runflats.

8. Ride quality is much improved, doesn't crash into bumps. Less bang and more thud if you get me?

9. Better braking, improved grip and a little more flex in the tyres help braking.... a lot.

THANKS FOR THAT THERE SOME USEFULL INFO THERE, I LIKE THE THOUGHT OF SOME GOODYEAR EAGLE F1'S AS I HAD SOME OF THEM BEFORE IN 16INCH & LIKE THEM

I WILL NEED SOME THAT ARE AS GOOD IN ALL WAETHERS AS I DRIVE IN ALL WEATHERS & ALONG COUNTRY LANES

I THINK I NEED O BUY SOME OF THAT FLAT TYRE STUFF & KEEP THAT IN MY BOOT!!!

Thanks

[MINIAC]

Quote: Originally Posted by mini33 (original)

I realise that but every two weeks or less is a bit ott isn't it

I'll check the tire pressure before I do a long roadtrip or once a month if I'm not driving a lot of miles.

[Mark84]

Im also considering wheel options at the mo! just got my mini last week and its on 16" runflats (dunlops) but was considering my options for 17" alloys with normal tyres once ive worn these out!

Went to a local tyre shop that i know and trust and he said that he thought that the cars suspension is set up to suit the harder runflats and that if changed to new alloys with normal tires the handling would suffer owing to the more supple suspension designed for runflat tyres? is this true? he also mentioned the no spare wheel issue but like has been said above a nice can of tire weld and your away! any help much appreciated!!

[mini33]

My sentements exactly Mark thats my thoughts but dont seem to be getting any usefull answers

Hopefully we can both get answers

[batou]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mark84 (original)

Went to a local tyre shop that i know and trust and he said that he thought that the cars suspension is set up to suit the harder runflats and that if changed to new alloys with normal tires the handling would suffer owing to the more supple suspension designed for runflat tyres? is this true? he also mentioned the no spare wheel issue but like has been said above a nice can of tire weld and your away! any help much appreciated!!

"Owing to the more supple suspension", has this tyre shop ever driven a mini? The ride is about as subtle as a brick in the small of my back lol!!!!! It's set up hard and then made even harder with run flats. I'm sorry, although having driven 5000 miles on runflats and just 2000 miles on non runflats I still think I can comment on this.

If you read bmw mini marketing blurb it refers to the car being one of if not the stiffest chassis on any supermini!!

The handling has not suffered in anyway possible. Yes the car was designed to get the best from bmw's insistence on using runflat tyres on their cars but it only mean that there car will benefit even more when using performance tyres. All cars are designed with a certain tyre in mind but using a better all round tyre than what the car was based on is not ever going to be a bad thing.

The only thing I could say is the runflats are very stiff and have no give, real tyres do so they flex which slow down turn-in but increase grip. The turn in can be countered by going for a lower profile (40's) like i did.

On every car I've owned I've been picky with tyres and the first thing I felt uncomfortable with was the grip in wet weather when running on runflats. Lets just say thats now gone

Please don't let my slight dyslexsic'ness give you the impression i'm uneducated lol!

[Mark84]

Ok according to the local mini dealers tyre specialist aftermarket wheels will be fine provided the tracking is all done properly afterwards!

As far as he was aware the suspension set up is no different for non runflats to runflats! so apart from the difference in the wheels themselves the ride should be no different!

I'm likin these form my BRGreen mini with its black roof and wing mirrors!

17" MINI WROX ALLOY WHEELS & TYRES COOPER S MINI 1 on eBay, also, Wheels with Tyres, Car Wheels, Tyres Trims, Cars, Parts Vehicles (end time 25-Jan-08 16:56:08 GMT)

Hope this helps, if someone knows different though to what i have been told please correct me!

[batou]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mark84 (original)

Ok according to the local mini dealers tyre specialist aftermarket wheels will be fine provided the tracking is all done properly afterwards!

As far as he was aware the suspension set up is no different for non runflats to runflats! so apart from the difference in the wheels themselves the ride should be no different!

I'm likin these form my BRGreen mini with its black roof and wing mirrors!

17" MINI WROX ALLOY WHEELS & TYRES COOPER S MINI 1 on eBay, also, Wheels with Tyres, Car Wheels, Tyres Trims, Cars, Parts Vehicles (end time 25-Jan-08 16:56:08 GMT)

Hope this helps, if someone knows different though to what i have been told please correct me!

No wonder!!!! After market wheels will alter the characteristics for sure, I was talking "Runflats VS Normal Tyres" were now talking Standard 16s plus runflats vs aftermarket 17s plus non runflats???

If were talking just tyres then my above comment is true, if its tyres and different wheels, weights, and different fittings then I can't help.

[Mark84]

sorry batou didn't see your previous post to my reply!lol yeah i have to agree wholly on what you said! and i definatley agree on the grip aspect. i had goodyear F1's on my last car and although the car had a lotus handling setup the tyres were awsome and i miss them soooooo much! i think once ive had some fun on these tyres and worn them out a little i'll be going back to my goodyears!

[super c00per]

So according to you batou running 40's is better than 45's???

Has anyone else found this, or what would you recommend??

[batou]

Quote: Originally Posted by super c00per (original)

So according to you batou running 40's is better than 45's???

Has anyone else found this, or what would you recommend??

Well what I mean is, running 215/40/R17 Goodyear Non-RF's is better than 205/45/R17 Pirelli/Dunlop RF's.

I would guess, not from experience, that turn in maybe slightly slower with 215/45/R17 Goodyears because of the increased profile and added flex, and also the extra 1.3Kg per tyre (215/45 are 22lbs, 215/40 are 19lbs).

However, the ride will be even better still with 215/45/R17.

[jlove]

Quote: Originally Posted by batou (original)

Against Runflats
6. You can repair some puntures on normal tyres rather having to bin the whole tyre.

I have had two punctures on run-flats repaired professionally, no problems; £14 each time.

Pirelli r/f are awful - they tram-line with only medium wear, similar to Pirelli non r/f high-performance tyres, though. I've changed to Goodyear r/f and they are much better. I'm just too lazy to change to non r/f now!

[Fen]

I don't think I've read a single post by anyone who has actually switched from runflats to conventional tyres saying anything other than it's a massive improvement, and I haven't heard anyone say they have switched back to runflats. What does that tell you?

Worst case and you get a blow-out that destroys the tyre then with no spare you need recovery - regardless of the type. Anything smaller and you can temporarily repair a conventional tyre with a can of tyre weld. In most cases if you get a puncture in a performance tyre you should not use it again - that being the case you CAN drive (slowly) on a conventional tyre that is flat, and it will be cheaper to replace than a runflat.

I've only had one puncture bad enough to go flat quickly in my most recent half-million miles of driving and it was a motorway blow out in an RS6 which has no spare and conventional tyres from the factory. I carry an AA card so it was not an issue; I was recovered to the hotel I was staying in and drove on the flat to the Audi dealer in the morning.

[super c00per]

I've been ringing around today for tyre prices and one guy told me that im better of staying with the original size 205/45/17 as this then wont effect me engine and gearbox as changing the size of the tyre may damage these things...is this true?

I now really dont know what size to go for??

[Fen]

What you should remember is that most tyre fitters are like the missing link - their knuckles drag the floor as they walk. This guy is hardly Einstein, clearly.

It is not possible for a minor change in tyre size to damage the engine or the gearbox.

To be fair it's generally better to stick with the same width and apect ratio when you change tyres but keep the same rim, but although the 205 part of the size is supposed to mean than the tread is 205mm wide there is quite a variance beween the actual width of "205" tyres by diferent manufacturers and as I understand it runflats tend to be on the generous side. Additionally the runflats have super-stiff side walls so going lower profile with conventional tyres is a good idea as you will still get a little more compliance. That is the reason that many people go with 215 in a lower aspect ratio as it more closely matches the width and sidewall stiffness of the runflat. The overall diameter is not massively different and my speedo reads reasonably accurately with 215/40 17s.

[mini33]

Sorry to interupt your debate her on my thread but i started the thread to debate the runflat tyres vs the normal tyre not differnt rims sizes & what that effects as i am not intending to change my rims or the tyres size if i have to but only weather to dump the 17inch runflats & get a variant of 17inch normal tyre

Isn't this a side track of my thread or am i reading the replys incorrectly

Thanks