2007 Cooper S "Timing Chain Tensioner Defect" - Page 2 - MINI Cooper Forum
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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2015, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by igooba View Post
Hi Everyone,

I had some problems with a recent BMW pre-purchase inspection, in case anyone is thinking of getting one they are not worth the money. BMW will cover up any known faults, at least an independant check will give you the truth.

The letter I sent them is below, will post the reply when I get it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please pass this email onto BMW complaints division at head office.
I would like to ask for BMW’s assistance in claiming some compensation for the matter outlined below.

Summary –
• Mini Cooper S Chilli 2007 model R56 – Rego XXX-XXX – Vehicle has only done 38,000 kms
• Purchased second hand privately
• Paid over $550 to BMW Canterbury (where car was bought from) for pre-purchase inspection one month ago
• BMW Canterbury noted a timing chain rattle was result of little low on oil which they topped up
• Purchased car based on report
• Timing chain rattle persisted - asked BMW Sylvania to identify if rattle was something that could be fixed under recall
• BMW Sylvania charged $221+ to confirm rattle was a known issue but not covered by a recall
• Disputed $221+ charge with BMW Sylvania service manager, was told they spent time and this will be charged full stop. BMW Sylvania quoted $980 to re-tension chain without fixing root cause – I declined to proceed with the work

As I am sure you are aware, it seems the chain tensioner is a well-known Mini Cooper S issue.
Timing chain work is a major service and every 30,000kms is obviously a design fault BMW are aware of. Even the cheapest brand cars recommend this type of work every 100,000kms.
I have read BMW in other countries have distributed a service manual on the parts to replace to ensure the root cause of this issue is resolved permanently and performing the work at no cost to the owner.

I have the following concerns -
1. Why did I not receive a competent pre-purchase inspection by BMW Canterbury, this is the same inspection you perform on your own used cars to give owners manufacturer piece of mind before purchasing from your lot.
2. When was BMW Canterbury not forthcoming with what they are well aware of is an expensive and re-occurring issue? (perhaps they are not allowed to due to poor PR for BMW?)
3. Why did Sylvania BMW insist on inspecting the car rather than give me a quotation over the phone as asked to resolve the well-known issue AND THEN charge $221 for confirming what they already knew?
4. Why am I $700+ out of pocket and no progress due to BMW’s service agents inability to be honest with me about well-known issues?
5. Why is a major fault on a $50,000+ purchase price car that will easily destroy an engine at low kms not a recall campaign?
6. Is it true that BMW only pay for parts rather than labour to resolve? - if this is the case from what I have read the part is less than 2% of the cost of the rectification repair which is unacceptable given fault lies with BMW.

The dealers informed me they would not be out of pocket, I would need to pay them and take it up with BMW directly.
I am asking if someone at BMW can please look at my case and at a minimum refund the pre-purchase inspection and charge by BMW Sylvania.

I am then still left with a minimum $980 charge to temporarily tighten the timing chain due to BMW’s faulty design.
I expect many thousands to either fix permanently or to perform the above $980 fix multiple times each 30,000kms as many others have needed to do.

Attached are extracts from a class action document outlining the exact "Timing Chain Tensioner Defect" issues I have experienced –
“The Class Vehicles are uniformly and inherently defective in materials, design, or
workmanship, and prematurely fail under ordinary driving conditions and far in advance of their
expected useful life. The Timing Chain Tensioner Defect exists regardless of the driving conditions
at which the Class Vehicles are driven and regardless of compliance with Defendants' recommended
maintenance schedule.”
“Defendants have sold thousands of Class Vehicles without disclosing to Class
Members the existence of the Timing Chain Tensioner Defect. Where the Timing Chain Tensioner
Defect manifests after 48 months or 50,000 miles, the Defendants contend that the warranty period
has expired and that Class Members bear the cost of the repair, which can be thousands of dollars”
“Defendants have purposefully concealed, and continue to conceal, their knowledge of
the Timing Chain Tensioner Defect so as to be able to take the position with their customers that the
written warranty period "expired" before the defect manifests itself. Despite the safety risk to Class
Vehicle occupants, Defendants failed to disclose material information regarding the defect in an
attempt to avoid the cost of repair and, instead, unfairly shift the cost of repair to Class Member”s
“The Timing Chain Tensioner Defect presents a substantial safety risk because the
defect can cause sudden engine failure and complete loss of vehicle power at any time and without
warning.”
Look forward to hearing from you and your advice in how to move forward to rectify this issue mechanically and financially.
Yikes. I have the same issue i think.. a very annoying sound every time i start driving while the car is cold engine.. gets better as the car warms up… mine is also 2007 mini cooper s. just hit 70,000 km`s… So obviously no recall on another one of this cars manufacture defaults!… Had better get mine seen too…. thank you

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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 2016, 01:42 AM
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Maurice
I have a 2011 R56 COPPER HATCH and has the same problem with the timing chain after 35,000 kms.

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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old Apr 18th, 2016, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by EfficientDynamics View Post
Hey if anyone in Sydney wants their timing chain and guides replaced i've done it several (hundred) times.
give me a call or a message on 0423213065 ill get your mini sorted out no problems.
Hi There
I have had timing tensioner and timing chain issues on my mini cooper s clubman chilli 2009. Ive had a case at the tribunal open against Bmw and they have offered to fix timing at their cost at last mediation. I want to know if they are using new modified parts as the parts in this generation are known defective, and if so how are they going now with new modified part? Thanks and regards Sophia
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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old Jul 20th, 2016, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igooba View Post
Hi Everyone,

I had some problems with a recent BMW pre-purchase inspection, in case anyone is thinking of getting one they are not worth the money. BMW will cover up any known faults, at least an independant check will give you the truth.

The letter I sent them is below, will post the reply when I get it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please pass this email onto BMW complaints division at head office.
I would like to ask for BMW’s assistance in claiming some compensation for the matter outlined below.

Summary –
• Mini Cooper S Chilli 2007 model R56 – Rego XXX-XXX – Vehicle has only done 38,000 kms
• Purchased second hand privately
• Paid over $550 to BMW Canterbury (where car was bought from) for pre-purchase inspection one month ago
• BMW Canterbury noted a timing chain rattle was result of little low on oil which they topped up
• Purchased car based on report
• Timing chain rattle persisted - asked BMW Sylvania to identify if rattle was something that could be fixed under recall
• BMW Sylvania charged $221+ to confirm rattle was a known issue but not covered by a recall
• Disputed $221+ charge with BMW Sylvania service manager, was told they spent time and this will be charged full stop. BMW Sylvania quoted $980 to re-tension chain without fixing root cause – I declined to proceed with the work

As I am sure you are aware, it seems the chain tensioner is a well-known Mini Cooper S issue.
Timing chain work is a major service and every 30,000kms is obviously a design fault BMW are aware of. Even the cheapest brand cars recommend this type of work every 100,000kms.
I have read BMW in other countries have distributed a service manual on the parts to replace to ensure the root cause of this issue is resolved permanently and performing the work at no cost to the owner.

I have the following concerns -
1. Why did I not receive a competent pre-purchase inspection by BMW Canterbury, this is the same inspection you perform on your own used cars to give owners manufacturer piece of mind before purchasing from your lot.
2. When was BMW Canterbury not forthcoming with what they are well aware of is an expensive and re-occurring issue? (perhaps they are not allowed to due to poor PR for BMW?)
3. Why did Sylvania BMW insist on inspecting the car rather than give me a quotation over the phone as asked to resolve the well-known issue AND THEN charge $221 for confirming what they already knew?
4. Why am I $700+ out of pocket and no progress due to BMW’s service agents inability to be honest with me about well-known issues?
5. Why is a major fault on a $50,000+ purchase price car that will easily destroy an engine at low kms not a recall campaign?
6. Is it true that BMW only pay for parts rather than labour to resolve? - if this is the case from what I have read the part is less than 2% of the cost of the rectification repair which is unacceptable given fault lies with BMW.

The dealers informed me they would not be out of pocket, I would need to pay them and take it up with BMW directly.
I am asking if someone at BMW can please look at my case and at a minimum refund the pre-purchase inspection and charge by BMW Sylvania.

I am then still left with a minimum $980 charge to temporarily tighten the timing chain due to BMW’s faulty design.
I expect many thousands to either fix permanently or to perform the above $980 fix multiple times each 30,000kms as many others have needed to do.

Attached are extracts from a class action document outlining the exact "Timing Chain Tensioner Defect" issues I have experienced –
“The Class Vehicles are uniformly and inherently defective in materials, design, or
workmanship, and prematurely fail under ordinary driving conditions and far in advance of their
expected useful life. The Timing Chain Tensioner Defect exists regardless of the driving conditions
at which the Class Vehicles are driven and regardless of compliance with Defendants' recommended
maintenance schedule.”
“Defendants have sold thousands of Class Vehicles without disclosing to Class
Members the existence of the Timing Chain Tensioner Defect. Where the Timing Chain Tensioner
Defect manifests after 48 months or 50,000 miles, the Defendants contend that the warranty period
has expired and that Class Members bear the cost of the repair, which can be thousands of dollars”
“Defendants have purposefully concealed, and continue to conceal, their knowledge of
the Timing Chain Tensioner Defect so as to be able to take the position with their customers that the
written warranty period "expired" before the defect manifests itself. Despite the safety risk to Class
Vehicle occupants, Defendants failed to disclose material information regarding the defect in an
attempt to avoid the cost of repair and, instead, unfairly shift the cost of repair to Class Member”s
“The Timing Chain Tensioner Defect presents a substantial safety risk because the
defect can cause sudden engine failure and complete loss of vehicle power at any time and without
warning.”
Look forward to hearing from you and your advice in how to move forward to rectify this issue mechanically and financially.
Hi Friend...I too am in the same position as you.
I purchased my Mini Cooper S Clubman 2008 year model this year 2016 Sydney Australia... second hand a private sale.
My timing chain went also and it cost me in total $2,800.00
I was gutted to read that this was a highly regular issue worldwide.

I need to see if I can get some justice for this negligence.
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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old Jul 20th, 2016, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkuusik View Post
Hi Friend...I too am in the same position as you.
I purchased my Mini Cooper S Clubman 2008 year model this year 2016 Sydney Australia... second hand a private sale.
My timing chain went also and it cost me in total $2,800.00
I was gutted to read that this was a highly regular issue worldwide.

I need to see if I can get some justice for this negligence.

its highly unlikely you will get any justice for this because of the 1000s of failures. as siad on this forum and many others the timing chain guide rails vanos solenoids and oil consumption are all common issues.

oil pumps are also at borrowed time after 100k


with all do respect you should of read up about the issues before buying the car.

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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old Jul 22nd, 2016, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by minione2002 View Post
its highly unlikely you will get any justice for this because of the 1000s of failures. as siad on this forum and many others the timing chain guide rails vanos solenoids and oil consumption are all common issues.

oil pumps are also at borrowed time after 100k


with all do respect you should of read up about the issues before buying the car.
I disagree, Australian consumer law provides very specific conditions which must be met by manufacturers of products sold in Australia. The 1000's of failures is clear evidence in my opinion that BMW have sold products with known defects here and I recall reading that there is currently a class action against BMW in this regard. From memory Maurice Blackburn are representing the plaintiffs, so it may be worthwhile giving one of their offices a ring before you decide to cop being fobbed off by BMW or the dealer.
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old Jul 30th, 2016, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofiyah View Post
Hi There
I have had timing tensioner and timing chain issues on my mini cooper s clubman chilli 2009. Ive had a case at the tribunal open against Bmw and they have offered to fix timing at their cost at last mediation. I want to know if they are using new modified parts as the parts in this generation are known defective, and if so how are they going now with new modified part? Thanks and regards Sophia
BMW are only going to fit the same parts into the car as far as the guides go, the chain tensioner may be an updated unit providing more tension stopping the chain from chattering around and breaking the plastic guides
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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old Sep 17th, 2016, 04:31 AM
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Hi All

Any update on this thread? Are there any other chain tensioners / guides available on the market that can stop this occurring?

Cheers - Josh
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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old Sep 26th, 2016, 08:12 AM
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Hi
I recently purchased a 2009 cooper s cabrio. It only had 47000km on it. The guy I bought it from had it serviced regularly at bmw and had a road worthy done with them 2 days before I purchased it. I started hearing a noise last week and the car started sounding like a tractor when I first started it. This went away after about 5 minutes. I thought it may have been because I went through a very large puddle on Sunday when it was pelting down rain. The noise did not disappear and 3 day's later the engine light came on. I took the car to bmw thinking that there may be water in the turbo or something to this effect. They informed me today that "Top chain guide mechanically failed, disturbing engine timing large amount of slack on chain drive, thus loud rattling noise evident"
It is going to cost $4000 to fix. When I asked what would cause this they said using wrong engine oil or not serviced correctly.
I contacted the lawyers mentioned in earlier feeds in this forum to see if there had been any success with getting bmw to fix the problem. The lawyers mentioned said that they had never had a lawsuit against Bmw I then contacted fair trading and as I only just purchased the car I have had no dealings with bmw personally so can't have a case against them. Plus I purchased from Victoria and live in NSW. I then contacted bmw in Newcastle again where the car now is. I explained that if the problem was caused by using wrong oil or bad servicing it was all done at bmw. They are speaking to BMW to see if anything can be done but I'm not holding my breath.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do. Don't have the money to fix it. ?? I have only done 5000km on the car since buying it 2 months ago
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old Sep 26th, 2016, 09:04 AM
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The only cure is to avoid all gen 2 petrol engines like the herpies and instead settle for a r53 cooper s

Or a DIESEL second gen r55 r56

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2017, 02:39 AM
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Here is a timing chain i replaced recently, the Chain had completely snapped from being driven for too long with damaged guides/low oil, it even snapped teeth off the Crank sprocket which i've never seen before.

Did not bend any engine valves which i think was very lucky, i replaced the Chain/guides/tensioner/etc, removed the sump and extracted all the broken pieces there were many. replaced the oil and filter twice to flush any pieces and tested it - all ok.

customer was quoted by a workshop 11k plus labour to replace the entire engine, i repaired it within a week for much less and it runs like new.

Send me a message on here if you have this problem, I'm located in Sydney.
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Originally Posted by EfficientDynamics View Post
Here is a timing chain i replaced recently, the Chain had completely snapped from being driven for too long with damaged guides/low oil, it even snapped teeth off the Crank sprocket which i've never seen before.

Did not bend any engine valves which i think was very lucky, i replaced the Chain/guides/tensioner/etc, removed the sump and extracted all the broken pieces there were many. replaced the oil and filter twice to flush any pieces and tested it - all ok.

customer was quoted by a workshop 11k plus labour to replace the entire engine, i repaired it within a week for much less and it runs like new.

Send me a message on here if you have this problem, I'm located in Sydney.
Extremely luck that is the only damage to the engine and the 11k response to me is disgusting, we all know they want to sell you a new car but 11k for this repair is nothing short of extortion.
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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2017, 12:41 PM
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Extremely luck that is the only damage to the engine and the 11k response to me is disgusting, we all know they want to sell you a new car but 11k for this repair is nothing short of extortion.
to be fair it wasn't taken to a dealer it was taken to a private workshop, i think they suspected the engine was beyond repair or didn't want to do the job so quoted a whole engine instead.

I think that the engine can bend valves when badly out of time but perhaps since the chain completely snapped the valves didn't hold max lift that's the only reasoning i can come up with!
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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2018, 01:17 AM
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Here is a timing chain i replaced recently, the Chain had completely snapped from being driven for too long with damaged guides/low oil, it even snapped teeth off the Crank sprocket which i've never seen before.

Did not bend any engine valves which i think was very lucky, i replaced the Chain/guides/tensioner/etc, removed the sump and extracted all the broken pieces there were many. replaced the oil and filter twice to flush any pieces and tested it - all ok.

customer was quoted by a workshop 11k plus labour to replace the entire engine, i repaired it within a week for much less and it runs like new.

Send me a message on here if you have this problem, I'm located in Sydney.
Also I can either use Genuine or identical non-genuine parts, timing chains in the N14 should really be a service item - unfortunately!

If anyone needs help or advice let me know.
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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2018, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by EfficientDynamics View Post
Here is a timing chain i replaced recently, the Chain had completely snapped from being driven for too long with damaged guides/low oil, it even snapped teeth off the Crank sprocket which i've never seen before.

Did not bend any engine valves which i think was very lucky, i replaced the Chain/guides/tensioner/etc, removed the sump and extracted all the broken pieces there were many. replaced the oil and filter twice to flush any pieces and tested it - all ok.

customer was quoted by a workshop 11k plus labour to replace the entire engine, i repaired it within a week for much less and it runs like new.

Send me a message on here if you have this problem, I'm located in Sydney.
what tends to happen is around 60-80k the chain is so far stretched the tensioner cant cope with it and allows the chain to lash and snap the top guide off, this metal and plastic top guide drops down on to the bottom sprocket and this gets jammed ie crankshaft wont turn at this point and the momentum left in the chain and camshafts and the damage to the chain at bottom snaps them rarely, timing chains on the turbo engines and 1.4 engines both around 60k and the chain is around end of life,, your lucky the top guide jammed the crankshaft hence why it had no valve damage, when it falls the other direction they tend to bend things.

good tuners/repairs in southwest uk top guys 01579388980
good tuner/ecu body control clones etc lancaster up north uk DALE PHONE NUMBER 07807 222262 top guy.
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