WANTED: Timing Tool for R56 N14 - MINI Cooper Forum

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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Mar 26th, 2019, 03:07 PM Thread Starter
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WANTED: Timing Tool for R56 N14

Anybody bought one of these and want to re-coupe a bit of the cost?

I know they are only 35 on eBay but good to pass on an otherwise unused tool.

OR could anyone near Gillingham, Kent let me borrow one for a weekend?

I also need the special spanner for the aux belt tensioner, although I might just make one.

Thanks,
Simon


Simon
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Mar 26th, 2019, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ssashton View Post
Anybody bought one of these and want to re-coupe a bit of the cost?

I know they are only 35 on eBay but good to pass on an otherwise unused tool.

OR could anyone near Gillingham, Kent let me borrow one for a weekend?

I also need the special spanner for the aux belt tensioner, although I might just make one.

Thanks,
Simon
the cheap 35 ebay locking kits are slightly out when timing up, best next option is laser tools do a good one, or draper do a good one as well, you will need a 27mm spanner for holding the camshafts with when doing the stretch bolts up on the camshafts, also when doing you must timing it lock bolts off to 20nm then rotate engine by had 4 turns then relock and check all locks fall in to place without any force always turn crankshaft clockwise only..
maybe someone will have bought a good brand tool and will sell it to move it on but rare.


Albert Einstein: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Mar 26th, 2019, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Mike, I've heard that the cheap ones sometimes have a slightly oversized crank pin, but are the cam locking brackets not accurate too?

From your comment I take it the cam lock should not be relied upon to hold the cams while bolting up?

Simon
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Mar 26th, 2019, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ssashton View Post
Hi Mike, I've heard that the cheap ones sometimes have a slightly oversized crank pin, but are the cam locking brackets not accurate too?

From your comment I take it the cam lock should not be relied upon to hold the cams while bolting up?
na its not the crank pin thats the problem with them, they are tight the first time used as the alloy off the mains plate it uses gets corrosion and hole gets a bit tight untill oil and worked the pin in a few times sometimes need a lever on it while just touch the crank for movement as such, as such a tiny fit,, its the top mount that lock on the cams i have a cheap one and 3-5 degrees out, but if i make up the slackness on the square parts of cam it sits over with feeler gauges pushed in on the rear to engine faces of lock tool i can get it to time within 1 degree which is fair.. like that you can not feel any difference between using a 200 locking tool and a cheap one,, i only found this by using autocom software and reading vanos sprocket positions actual and prescribed

Albert Einstein: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Mar 26th, 2019, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssashton View Post
Anybody bought one of these and want to re-coupe a bit of the cost?

I know they are only 35 on eBay but good to pass on an otherwise unused tool.

OR could anyone near Gillingham, Kent let me borrow one for a weekend?

I also need the special spanner for the aux belt tensioner, although I might just make one.

Thanks,
Simon
i think the tensioner on gen 2 cars have a 28mm or 32mm multipoint head on it to pull aux belt tensioner back, the tensioner has a little spring loaded lock slide pin on it as well,, i have used large molgrips and lever bar before but better with a sock and bar on it, only gen 1 super charged cars need special tool (proper stupid idea it was

Albert Einstein: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Mar 26th, 2019, 07:15 PM
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3 videos this guy has it fairly well right good info
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQyyGEg7uSQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qySLGAD7DRg&t=27s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19gFe8P12VU&t=42s

Albert Einstein: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Mar 28th, 2019, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
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na its not the crank pin thats the problem with them, they are tight the first time used as the alloy off the mains plate it uses gets corrosion and hole gets a bit tight untill oil and worked the pin in a few times sometimes need a lever on it while just touch the crank for movement as such, as such a tiny fit,, its the top mount that lock on the cams i have a cheap one and 3-5 degrees out, but if i make up the slackness on the square parts of cam it sits over with feeler gauges pushed in on the rear to engine faces of lock tool i can get it to time within 1 degree which is fair.. like that you can not feel any difference between using a 200 locking tool and a cheap one,, i only found this by using autocom software and reading vanos sprocket positions actual and prescribed
Thanks for that Mike. I was thinking the same regards a shim to make up any slack on the tool. I'll give that a go.

Simon
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 4th, 2019, 10:04 AM
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Hi Simon,

I am in the same boat and need to acquire a timing toolkit to use on my recently acquired dead R56 Cooper.
Looking on eBay and Amazon, the cheap sets seem to go for between 30-70 with no appreciable difference.

Just wondering if you ended up ordering one of these cheap ones and how you got on with it?

Cheers,
Steve.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 4th, 2019, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Angst View Post
Hi Simon,

I am in the same boat and need to acquire a timing toolkit to use on my recently acquired dead R56 Cooper.
Looking on eBay and Amazon, the cheap sets seem to go for between 30-70 with no appreciable difference.

Just wondering if you ended up ordering one of these cheap ones and how you got on with it?

Cheers,
Steve.
i bought one years ago in a red box 49 i compared it with a proper draper and laser tools and found it to be a few degrees out, as when live data run with autocom showed the vanos positions prescribed and actual were 3-5 degrees out, what id did notice is the top cam locks do have a bit of slack in them and allows both cams to move when locked,, i then experimented using feeler gauges in the square part that holds the cams and found by packing out the difference on both cam shafts on the edges towards front of car on both i could get it to time up with 1 degree which is within tolerance as the vanos and ecu will sort that out,
this all said the correct and sure of a good result is a good timing kit laser tools and draper do very good ones but silly money

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 4th, 2019, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mike1967 View Post
i then experimented using feeler gauges in the square part that holds the cams and found by packing out the difference on both cam shafts on the edges towards front of car on both i could get it to time up with 1 degree
I get where you mean (ropey image attached) - and pack them out square ?

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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 4th, 2019, 12:30 PM
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I get where you mean (ropey image attached) - and pack them out square ?
yep that correct on cheap ones there really is to much allowed movement on the square part that sets timing. its funny as when i learnt this i drove the car both ways it was on 307 gti and the two drives were so different, wrong timing was all retarded and would not bounce off the red line very well. secondhand one after using feeler gauges to set it solid was spot on would just rev to red line 1 2 3 easy and the idle settle down after a few runs while car was resetting its self adaptations cat and 02 sensors etc, people just need to realise these prince engines are designed to their limits or power and heat transfer etc so need to run right to stay healthy, Peugeot rcz same engines n18 269bhp from bare bones same motor mechanically

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