N12 Timing Issues - MINI Cooper Forum

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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 2019, 07:16 PM Thread Starter
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Question N12 Timing Issues

Hi,

I have just realised that when disassembling my n12 engine I put the flywheel pin in the wrong hole. So when I removed the head (I removed the crank pulley bolt and cam bolts by using the cam lock tool and removing the tensioner), the pistons are not 90 degrees BTDC. Am I ok to rotate the crank until it is 90 degrees BTDC as it should be and re-locking the flywheel. Then putting the cams in by rotating them until the writing is up and they are in the correct position. Attaching the cam sprockets and torquing as per the Bentley manual?

Is there anyway that the engine could be out of time doing the above? Or to check that it is definitely in time once assembled? I cant see any damage to anything so hopefully its ok :/. Any help with this would be much appreciated.

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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 2019, 07:32 PM
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easy one to do that, but the way to rule it out is this, the crankshaft if in wrong place will still rotate the other direction, when its in correct hole in flywheel it will not rotate either way, you need to put two rods in plug holes and set the pin ie when rods in number 1 and number 2 and have level you will find the whole easy,, you need to gently turn the crankshaft to find the locking pin hole first ie all pistons will be at same height in bores ie in the middle, then after that you can safely turn camshafts to their locking positions,,
HEADS UP ITS IMPORTANT WHEN SETTING BACK UP TO CJ=HECK AND DOUBLE CHECK THE TIMING BEFORE DOING THE STRETCH PARTS OF THE BOLTS,, lock 20nm turn engine 4 times relock crankshaft first then the cam locks should if correct drop in to place,, then after this install the chain spring tensioner and repeat the checking it times up after turning by hand 1 time, if does relock it use preload tool again on tension and do the bolts up,, ie camshafts 20nm plus 90 plus 90 degrees, cranks shaft 40nm plus 100 degrees or as tight as you can get it. good luck,


Albert Einstein: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 2019, 07:46 PM Thread Starter
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Brilliant! Thank you for your reply!
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Jun 13th, 2019, 06:31 AM
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Brilliant! Thank you for your reply!
if need any more help a long the way your welcome

Albert Einstein: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 2019, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
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if need any more help a long the way your welcome
Thank you. I have rotated the crank and locked the crank so all pistons are equal, and the crank is locked both ways. Is it possible for the crank to lock 180 degrees out of time? I think iv locked it correctly, as piston #1 is on the rise which i think denotes 90 degrees before TDC.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 2019, 11:57 AM
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Thank you. I have rotated the crank and locked the crank so all pistons are equal, and the crank is locked both ways. Is it possible for the crank to lock 180 degrees out of time? I think iv locked it correctly, as piston #1 is on the rise which i think denotes 90 degrees before TDC.
all 4 pistons will be equal height in the bores, ie that is 90 degrees or a full turn 360 degrees ie a 1/4 of the travel as such on a 4 stroke engine, and no it only locks both ways ie you can but a 3 ft bar on the camshaft bolt and the crankshaft will not rotate either way, there is only one locking hole,, its important to put two equal rods in spark plug hole 1 and two and when both are same height the lock hole will be very close and its 1-4mm of travel sort of area on the flywheel it should lock both ways and pin will slide in so the handle is nearly touching the alloy part on bottom of engine as such,, this pin is hardened and is left in while tightening up the sprocket bolts and stretch part so takes a fair bit of force, on my kit i have done hundreds of them and still the pin is like new,

Albert Einstein: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 2019, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
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all 4 pistons will be equal height in the bores, ie that is 90 degrees or a full turn 360 degrees ie a 1/4 of the travel as such on a 4 stroke engine, and no it only locks both ways ie you can but a 3 ft bar on the camshaft bolt and the crankshaft will not rotate either way, there is only one locking hole,, its important to put two equal rods in spark plug hole 1 and two and when both are same height the lock hole will be very close and its 1-4mm of travel sort of area on the flywheel it should lock both ways and pin will slide in so the handle is nearly touching the alloy part on bottom of engine as such,, this pin is hardened and is left in while tightening up the sprocket bolts and stretch part so takes a fair bit of force, on my kit i have done hundreds of them and still the pin is like new,
That makes sense. Thank you. They are all equal height now and i cant turn the crank either way with the pin in. I have the head off at the moment but i will put some rods down when i put the head back on as you mentioned above to double check the timing.

Im starting to think the timing was out on this engine when it was dissembled, as the round on the camshaft would not have been facing down when the pistons were locked like this.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 2019, 01:22 PM
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That makes sense. Thank you. They are all equal height now and i cant turn the crank either way with the pin in. I have the head off at the moment but i will put some rods down when i put the head back on as you mentioned above to double check the timing.

Im starting to think the timing was out on this engine when it was dissembled, as the round on the camshaft would not have been facing down when the pistons were locked like this.
what you must do while head off is put head on its side ie inlet downwards first off and fill the exhaust ports with some diesel or petrol and do same on the the inlet ports and watch the valves for any fluid leaking, if any leaks you have slightly bent valves this is common on cars that have been run for awhile with chain rattling and more so on those that slip teeth, its a must do thing to know for sure other wise you waste money on gasket and head bolts and cam bolts etc to have to do the job all over again,, its also worth sticking some on tops of pistons leave for 10 minutes if fluid is gone a re ring is next job .

Albert Einstein: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 2019, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
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what you must do while head off is put head on its side ie inlet downwards first off and fill the exhaust ports with some diesel or petrol and do same on the the inlet ports and watch the valves for any fluid leaking, if any leaks you have slightly bent valves this is common on cars that have been run for awhile with chain rattling and more so on those that slip teeth, its a must do thing to know for sure other wise you waste money on gasket and head bolts and cam bolts etc to have to do the job all over again,, its also worth sticking some on tops of pistons leave for 10 minutes if fluid is gone a re ring is next job .
Will do thanks. Lol it wouldn't surprise me if it needed rings.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Jun 15th, 2019, 08:07 AM
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Will do thanks. Lol it wouldn't surprise me if it needed rings.
if were me i would re ring it put new set of big end bearings in at same time and check crankshaft for any knock up and down movement as that would show wear in the mains and that is a mother of all jobs,, i would not hone the bore but would use course scotchbrite on the end of hone tool to clean and slightly etch the bores so new rings with seat better, thing rings set £60 bearing set £40 ish on ebay, would also use permanent red thread lock on clean bolts to be on safe side,, also when head off replace the small oil control ring on the 1st journal of the inlet cam camshaft i beleieve these have been upgraded since 2007 with a carbon nylon one that are better as a lot of early engines had issues with cam timing and was down to this oil ring,, also there is a new designed cam chain tensioner form bmw its long a lot better than the old ones are,

IF DO GO THAT FAR YOU MUST MARK EVERYTHING IE THE PISTONS AND DIRECTION THEY GO IN AND CORRECT CYLINDERS ALSO THE END CAPS MUST GO BACK TO THE CORRECT CONROD AND CORRECT WAY AROUND,, CLEAN IT BEFORE STRIPPING AND MARK WITH MARKER


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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 04:38 PM
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Change the valve stem oil seals whilst head is off as these tend to make engine smoke
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