[newminimark]

I was talking to a colleague today who owns a 106 GTI. He said that he was in Coventry the other day, and a lovely black wheeled, Cooper S was heading towards Nuneaton. He told me he decided a race was in order.

Knowing his is capable of 0-60 in 7.4, he raced the two in the S, but they shot off. This tells me that this is going to be one very special little car, and i've already told the dealer I will be in for a test drive. My Mini One may just have to transform if I like it.

HE HE

 

[Jazzy Jase]

Peugeout quote 8.7 seconds as the 0-62 for the 106 GTi, whilst MINI quote 7.4 seconds for the S.

The motoring press can usually knock half a second off.

As much as I like the 106 GTi it is getting a bit old now and EVO prefer the Standard Cooper to it.

I don't think you can really judge the two together. I have seen a group test were a Clio 172 and 106 GTi were put up against each other. The 106 won but only because it was more fun. The Clio pasted it on performance.

 

[bigbaddaboom]

the times are wrong

The 106 GTi has exactly the same engine as the Saxo VTS. My friend and I had one of each and they both accelerated at the same speed. I've had my VTS timed to 60 and I have pipped 7.1 seconds (20.8 to 100). Sit at 3500 RPM and dump the clutch, hold on to the wheel to stop it jumping and it's hit 7200+ RPM in about 2 seconds. And all this in an unmoddified VTS (kind of rare I know).

My friend upgraded his 106 to a Clio 172 last year and YES it definitely does go quicker to 60, but not by as much as you'd think. We haven't timed it but we both know that the 120 HP engine in the GTi/VTS is a capable little motor. I've kept up with several 172s on motorways and country roads as well so performance wise the Clio isn't that much better considering it has 52 more horses. If you look at the race track figures from EVO (in the back issues) the GTi is faster around the circuit than the 172. The MINI Cooper is the same speed as the 172 on these circuits so just imagine if it had more power.

I have driven the MINI Cooper (I haven't got one but have had several test drives) and it is not a patch on the performance of the VTS. At high speed and low speed it can't keep up. On the twisties I don't think there would be much difference really. I haven't driven the MINI in anger but I know the performance of the VTS around country roads etc. It leaves most other cars for dead and keeps up with loads more which cost 2,3 or 4 times as much (and apparently, according to the press, the 106 GTi is even better - although I don't know where they get that idea!! )

The reason that the MINI gets top in the EVO Supermini section is because of the overall package (i.e like you said the GTi is more fun). And THAT is why my name is down for a Cooper S. I have had a hot Citroen for 4 years and that is plenty (like you said its getting old)....The build is brittle, the customer service is next to useless, the residuals are just 'okay', the image is now boy racerville and I want a change!

I want a car with at least the performance that I've already got. I'm pretty sure the extra torque the S has will make it for me. The 0-60 is most likely only going to be a small difference but the 0-100 will probably be a lot better (and subsequently top end grunt). I want a car that at least has the illusion of being well built (the jury is out on the build quality at the mo, but we'll see - it may just be 1% of the total). I'd like a car that has the right looks (interior and exterior). I'd like a car that at least at the moment doesn't have a boy racer image (well almost not). I'd like a car that doesn't look like an MPV. And I want a car that will still be worth at least 10 quid in four years .

This is my idea of the only bad thing about the MINI:

The back seats and boot are too small!!

But then they're bigger than the original so what more do you want!!

Jeez this message turned out to be a bit longer than I thought, sorry about that.

 

[AER]

when comparing the 2 cars, you would have to have 2 drivers of equal ability before you could say that one car was better/faster than the other.
I know a guy who does tarmac club rallying, he has a 1380 Mini (old type) as his road car, and that will make mincemeat of many a modern go kart in the majority of country lanes, but this is mainly due to the fact he knows his car inside out, and knows where the limit is in his particular car, others don't keep up, mainly because they have never explored the limits of their cars, and therefore don't know how far to push them in order to keep up in the first place.
I'm sure given it's standings, come up against a well driven 172, and it'll be hard to keep on his rear bumper. Motorway driving is difficult to judge (& therefore hard to make it count), with conditions etc having to be taken into consideration. The extra 52 horses show in the mid range area I think.
What other cars do you leave for dead (just out of curiosity) that cost up to 4 times more? if you're talking £40k approx (new value) then there are some serious performance cars that have been slain!

 

[Paul]

Well, completely different once more, but while we're on the subject of fast french motors Vs the Cooper/S...

I own a Pug 205 GTI 1.9 (selling it soon if anyone wants one), one of the true greats in 'hot hatch history' so I'm told.

While this car is only 15bhp more powerful than the MINI (130bhp), the 0-60 is a very fast feeling 7.8 seconds and the feeling of speed in that car is quite strong, when I took the MINI around the same country lanes of Beds, Bucks and Northants that I have blasted the Pug around the MINI is definately faster over all when it comes to the bends.

On a flat long motorway the pug (135mph top speed) would of course beat the MINI Cooper, but not so the 'S'.

On figures, and experience of pushing a MINI Cooper (and One) to their limits on the track and on roads I would say that I am confident that the MINI Cooper S really should prove to be king of the hot hatches... I cant wait!

 

[smiffy]

Just like the Peugeot adverts say...........

BYE BYE GTI

 

[bigbaddaboom]

I totally agree with you on the driving thing, it is difficult to judge different cars based on different drivers. Having said that how can you make a judgement other than through experience, oh well difficult question.

The motorway thing is all about torque and keeping up on someones tail. The country road thing is about capability around corners and strength out of them. I'm not trying to claim the VTS or GTi are the best drivers cars out there (I've driven Caterham 7s and they might just claim that!) because I haven't driven every car on the planet. I also know that everything like that is subjective. This month's EVO had the F355 long term driver slagging off the MINI because that is his opinion (it might have something to so with the OTHER car he drives ).

Anyway, I do know that, given similar driving ability (not necessarily me, I'm not saying I'm that great a driver), on a country road a 172 would find it very hard to pull away from a GTi (maybe in a few straighter bits - but even then not by much). I also know that Jaguar XJ8s, Mercedes CLK 320s, Alfa 156 V6s, Peugeot 406 Coupes (3.0l) and BMW 325s have all found that when they try and get way from me in the country they've found it pretty darn difficult (except when the straights appear! yahboo! those Jags can really shift!) . And I'm not saying I've slain them!!! I just know that I've managed to keep up when they thought they could leave me for dead. Maybe it is because they don't want to push they're cars to the limit, or maybe its just that they don't know where the limit is, I just know what I've seen and done.

At the end of the day though, you have in one corner someone crowing about having a 0-60 of 0.5 quicker than someone else, in another corner someone else saying they can get from 50-70 0.5 seconds quicker than another car and in another the whole 'I have 200 HP and you have 172' debate. It doesn't really make that much difference anyway as long as you can have a big cheesy grin on your face while you're driving. And you have a Porsc...I mean MINI Cooper S.

 

[Paul]

Besides all of which, I find the 106 and the Saxo EXTREMELY uncomfortable to sit in as a diver and passenger, but the MINI's....... nice.

 

[bigbaddaboom]

I am confident that the MINI Cooper S really should prove to be king of the hot hatches... I cant wait!

Exactly! The order has been in for months.

 

[bigbaddaboom]

Besides all of which, I find the 106 and the Saxo EXTREMELY uncomfortable to sit in as a diver and passenger, but the MINI's....... nice.

That's weird, that's what my wife says as well, usually when I'm driving.

 

[AER]

bigbaddaboom,

how right you are, grin factor is the No1 priority.
& the new 'S' hopefully will have it by the bucket load.

 

[stu(pid)]

I've got a 106 GTI and I'm ungrading to a Cooper S! From 2000 the 106 has been increased to 130bhp to get it through tighter emission laws. Although the 106 and the VTS have the same engine/chassis etc the saxo has a quoted faster 0-60 time than the 106 due to Peugeot loading the car during testing in an attempt to keep the insurance rating lower (group 13 compared to group 14 for the VTS). When I considered the mini I had to be sure it would be better than the 106 - performance and handling - not necessarilly a better built/quality car. The 106 out-performs anything I've encountered on the road. I've tried a Cooper with SSP+ and it is as good as the 106 in corners - also it feels better because it is wider. I agree the Cooper perfomance is not comparable to the 106, but then that's why I getting an S. The Cooper had leather Sports seats ans I found them less comfortable than the 106's leather/alcantara seats. Of note the 106 has alcantara (suede type stuff) where you sit and stops you sliding around as you do on full leather seats.

 

[Dom]

My mate has got a modified Saxo VTS pushing 138.5bhp (he likes the .5 bit). He is faster on the straight (although he has had it stripped out with roll cage, last months Revs if anyone is interested) but round the twisties there's no difference. Not bad considering his is lowered on adjustables. The 106 GTi's and Saxo VTS's are very capable little cars, but to compare it with a Cooper S isn't really fair. The Cooper S has a supercharger so oodles more torque. Although there's some seriously hot supercharged Saxo VTS's and VTR's that could make a standard cooper S look relatively tame. Works conversion should put a stop to that... hehehe

Dom - ex Saxo driver, no regrets

 

[zoooooom]

I had an encounter with a 106 GTI on Saturday,I came up behind him, he was doing about 60 mph we then sat together at varios speeds for about 15 miles ,a couple of times I thought the 106 was pulling away but they seamed quite evenly matched.