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200 bhp or maybe not

3420 Views 19 Replies 15 Participants Last post by  foxcasper, 
D
A member of our local mini club has been informed that the 163bhp unit in the S originally produced 200bhp, BMW thought it to powerful and had it detuned. This guy works as a mechanic so do I carry on listening to this guy or is talking crap.:confused:
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S
Most car manufactuers do this these days. In most EU countries cars are DE-TUNED but as there are so many different computers/chips in vehicles these day & there are always ways around cars that have been DE-TUNED..........at a cost that is:D :D :D

A reason cars are DE-TUNED is to make them insurance friendly so they can sell more cars:D :D

Why does everything boil down to money these days:confused:
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Casey does that mean it could be easily retuned to 200bhp
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DNG said:
Casey does that mean it could be easily retuned to 200bhp
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Does anybody here really think that this 1.6 Chrysler lump can survive 200+BHP for more than a 3.5 week life-span?

Does anyone understand just how much work BMW have actually had to do to this quite ordinary low cost engine to get it to behave itself at the quoted BHP for extended periods?

I`m sorry but some of us around here are going to have to get real about this engine.

Or have I missed something?
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Certain members of this forum have had experience driving the 200bhp Cooper S, and have spoken about it. A search may ferret them out?

:)
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MINIAC
Paul_Mullett said:
Certain members of this forum have had experience driving the 200bhp Cooper S, and have spoken about it. A search may ferret them out?
Click to expand...
Perhaps it was the Driven a Cooper 'S' thread.
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Jakx said:
Does anybody here really think that this 1.6 Chrysler lump can survive 200+BHP for more than a 3.5 week life-span? .......
Or have I missed something?
Click to expand...
As a matter of fact, yes you have missed something.

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2457
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S
With a turbo sized to a gas flow equivalent to 200hp, you can get 200hp out of a 1.6 engine - BUT it would have a lot of the dreaded Lag and you would have to run a pretty low compression ratio, so "gas mileage" would be poor.

The head gasket would probably only last about 5000 miles!

Getting 200hp from the Pentagon engine, with its current supercharger will be a big task - requires major changes to the drive system and ratios, charge cooling, compression ratio, cams etc.

Have fun!
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post deleted due to negative karma
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Why is the "cat" even on this forum?

This is the "S" forum, you have already expressed your opinions about the MINI being a performance car...
Getting more aout of the "S" should be EASY, I don't know the model of the Eaton Supercharger, but the one I think it is is built for a larger displacement engine. That means the boost has to be dialed back via the drive pulley, a pop off (diverter) or restricted intake. Reduced compression more than likely too. In 6 months the Horse Power increase will be known to all as the tuners take over.
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hang on . . . ?

Silverstone said:
Getting 200hp from the Pentagon engine, with its current supercharger will be a big task - requires major changes to the drive system and ratios, charge cooling, compression ratio, cams etc.
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But 200 BHP is just what John Cooper Garages reckon they`ll be flogging next year with their Works Cooper S !!!!

I don`t spend enough time at his S forum and I`ve probably missed something, yet again, but I wasn`t even aware that the engine was capable of being bored-out to 1.8 litres as referred to in today`s Autocar - is that the Alpina?
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Re: hang on . . . ?

Jakx said:
I wasn`t even aware that the engine was capable of being bored-out to 1.8 litres as referred to in today`s Autocar - is that the Alpina?
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I think that was a mistake by Autocar. The exact sentence they wrote was:

"aim is to develop a 200bhp version of the 1.8 Mini engine".

This implies that the standard engine is a 1.8.
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MINIAC
Jakx said:
But 200 BHP is just what John Cooper Garages reckon they`ll be flogging next year with their Works Cooper S !!!!

I don`t spend enough time at his S forum and I`ve probably missed something, yet again, but I wasn`t even aware that the engine was capable of being bored-out to 1.8 litres as referred to in today`s Autocar - is that the Alpina?
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From what I remember reading, the Alpina engine was not bored out. It had a longer stroke, to stretch the standard 1.6 litre to approximate 1.8 litre, plus increased blower pressure and freer-flowing exhaust to also help boost the torque and power.
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BruceK said:


As a matter of fact, yes you have missed something.

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2457
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Thank you, Bruce. I'm not sure why people are so amazed (worried?) that a 1.6L engine WITH a supercharger is producing 163hp. Sorry, but my wife's Miata is a 1.8L, DOHC *naturally aspirated* engine that produces 145+hp. (For those of you that know about Mazda's hp mistake, don't start. . :cool: ) After-market exhaust and intake have pushed it to the 150+ mark. Again, it's a standard, non-too-advanced 1.8L 4 cylinder engine. LOTS of room for tweaking and improvements.

Remember that the Integra Type-R produced 195hp (NA) from a 1.8L engine. Believe me, the Mini's engine can do more, given the correct, er, inspiration. :D
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A
Hey Miniac, got any more pics of your tii?(72?) I'm a big 2002 fan, and my dad is an 02' maniac, as he owns a BMW Repair shop, that is filled up mostly with 2002 parts!!. I would love to see some more pics of you tii, i Love that color on the car, but my favorite is INKA, it's the coolest freaking color was maybe even thinking of painting my Cooper S that color...lol
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aperez49 said:
i Love that color on the car, but my favorite is INKA, it's the coolest freaking color was maybe even thinking of painting my Cooper S that color...lol
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What colour is INKA?:)
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DNG said:
A member of our local mini club has been informed that the 163bhp unit in the S originally produced 200bhp, BMW thought it to powerful and had it detuned. This guy works as a mechanic so do I carry on listening to this guy or is talking crap.:confused:
Click to expand...
This is true, and has been mentioned on here in the past several times by people who worked on the MINI project.

So he is speaking the truth.... maybe he read it here? :)
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A
They detune them to ensure reliability. The new M3 engine is not far off it's highest tuned state, putting out 343bhp at 8000rpm, any more may cause warranty troubles.
There's already problems arrising with the M3 engine, with news that some are blowing their engines due to a variety of problems (minority they may be) being experienced.
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Inka is this great looking Orange color for the BMW 2002's and 3.0cs. Not available on the Mini unfortunately!
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F
more bhp ?

The original factory development vehicles did produce maybe 10bhp more - but the problem was keeping the catalyst or exhaust ports cool at high speed/load.

Normally the temperature is managed by making the mixture richer - however so much fuel was needed that it would no longer combust. There was also a probelm with the range of ignition retard available for the control.

To help resolve the problem the exhaust ports were widened (BMW request not Rover's) and compression ratio modified. Another modand oil spray bar added (to spray on underside of pistons to keep them cool).

(Also exhaust valves were sodium cored to help them from breaking).

I imagine 200bhp is not unreasonable to expect - the obvious way is via increased supercharger pulley ratio to get more MAF (Mass Air Flow) into the engine (hence more torque and power). The only issue is whetehr the calibration limits the maximum MAF to just above the standard amount. This acts like a rev-limiter, such that no matter how much air you push into the engine, the throttle will be closed some more (its drive by wire remember) to reduce the airflow, and the ignition may be automatically retarded to assist.

Of course if MAF maximum is not calibrated so closely anything will be possible :) (to a limit).
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