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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

Long time lurker but first post for me, hoping to get the opinion/advice of others who may have had a similar issue....found myself in predicament.

The back story:

I bought a 2012 Countryman 2.0 Cooper D for the Mrs 2 weeks ago, tidy car with 81k on the clock from a high street garage in near London.
Drove the car 60 miles home, drove fine.

The car sat on the drive for 3 days while I gave it a proper detail in and out, drove it to fill her up and 1/2 mile down the road the smoking from the exhaust started. turnaround and immediately drove home - you can see the amount of smoke here
(it was a hell of a lot and none stop.
At idle before the car has warmed up, almost not smoke but once it gets up to temp it's like a 80's power ballard smoke machine even at idle it will then smoke as per the vid.

I know a bit about engines so began to troubleshoot the cause, it's 100% engine oil coming out the exhaust causing the smoke so started to rule out head gasket or cracked block. Deciding I was out of my depth I got the car towed to a Mini/BMW Indy specialist near me for some diagnostics.
Their opinion was a new turbo, believing the seals had gone resulting in engine oil going into the manifold creating the smoke - they say they are "90% sure of this"

I called the garage I bought the car from who agreed to come and recover the car from the Indy and take it back to their workshop, today they called me to say they have inspected the issue and are sure it's the PCV system failed, causing oil to enter the manifold/exhaust causing the white smoke.

Now I am well within my rights to ask for a refund as it's within 30 days and I am very tempted to just walk away, the car did come with 12 month warranty which is a reason I've not yet so there will be no cost to me to get it repaired.

My dilemma is who diagnosis is most likely to be true? I've done a ton of research and believe both explanations can cause that much white smoke, the garage claim they disconnected the PCV (is that even possible?) and the car didn't smoke when they drove it. And they are trying to source a replacement PCV.

I've a voice in the back on my mind that's saying could the garage be trying to cover up the bigger turbo issue with would exceed any warranty claim, but I don't think you can bodge a turbo seal issue from my knowledge.

Any thoughts welcome
 

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if were pcv system would not be white smoke would be more blue as would of gone through the combustion process ,, where seals in turbo would be leaking on hot metal and cat,, if were me get your money back move on from it its at that age where these things start getting expensive
 

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Mini Paceman Cooper D MY2014
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To be honest, I'm with your specialist...there does seem to be a large quantity of clean oil suggesting it's from a pressurised pumped supply, i.e. Turbo feed....does the PCV on this engine actually have pressurised oil near it? Surely the PCV is more to do with oil vapour from natural (& excessive) blow-by and the quantity your getting far exceeds what would end up in the exhaust system from a faulty PCV...surely?

What about asking them do show this diagnosis via a live video.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the replies,

My understanding of how PCVs work on turbo cars is sketchy at best, I am dubious as to how that much oil can find it's way into exhaust as a result of it failing. Something i'll talk to the specialist about tomorrow - is it a plausable explanation or technically not possible to cause that much smoke and oil in the exhaust.

Prior to buying the car the garage had replaced the rocker cover gasket which I knew when buying.
But again I don't see that causing the problem
 

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pcv is for emissions its feeds the nox and vapour and any blow past gases in to the bottom of inlet manifold under cylinder 1 ie gearbox end, when they fail the car wont idle very well,, also when engine running pull the oil filler cap off when its hot engine should start to stutter after 30 seconds or so, also the pcv valve works off neg pressure and has a non return valve and prevents turbo positive pressure from entering the crankcase,, normally when its oil getting in before the combustion process the smoke is more blue colour and plugs get gunked up with back oily carbons,, does car have a misfire as well ie running on 3 cylinders, if it does another common issue with these engines is number 1 piston skirts fail a lot ,, and that causes a lot of white smoke ie lose the road in the mirrors
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks Mike,

To be fair the car idles and runs absolutley fine, no stuttering atall..the only symptom is the plumes of smoke and oil in the exhaust tip.
No warning lights, no errors flagged in BMW ista+

The fella who picked the car up reckons he disconnected the PCV and drove it 50 miles back to his workshop and no smoke :unsure:
 

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i've never had one do that when pcv fails they just misfire,, if its pushing that amount of oil through pcv i would suspect its got ring damage or turbo has failed and sending boost pressure through crankcase perhaps,, all sounds f=very fishy to me
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
It does sound fishy to me too, can't get their motive for blagging a repair tho as the car will just come straight back to them for a refund.
I'll give them a few more days and keep the thread updated with findings.
 

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personally I'd get my money back. I do believe it's possible the breather valve can cause this just the same as the turbo. Having a Focus here that looks pretty much the same as yours smoke wise I'm inclined to say turbo, but I'm also aware of the failures of the earlier BMW engine crankcase breather valves that caused the same oil consumption, they led to pressurisation of the crankcase and backing up of the turbo oil return causing the issues, whether ingestion or overspill, they can also lead to turbo failure due to cooking the oil suspended in the line, on those the breather was separate but on yours it's in the cover. It has potential to be a sign of internal carbonisation of the engine generally and to be honest has potential if repaired, to still just be kicking a can further down the road. Hence refund. If the PCV is affected by such contamination or if the turbo has failed due to it, other areas 'will' be also, notably the timing chain oiler possibly or chain rollers etc. A lot of work no warranty would cover. Equally it might be really clean and problem free, but stuff often fails for a reason, long service intervals, running low oil (and still sticking to long intervals), wrong oil, all contributors to this stuff....

I'd even be curious faced with your situation, if there was more to the rocker cover work..... always a cynic haha. Sometimes the symptom gets addressed before the cause.
 

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It does sound fishy to me too, can't get their motive for blagging a repair tho as the car will just come straight back to them for a refund.
I'll give them a few more days and keep the thread updated with findings.
honesty mate there are many good cars out there and many turds ,, fact the garage never checked the car over and fact the car has had work only just done would make me have alarm bells, think if you do keep the car ie have it back would be a good move to book it on with your trusted garage if have one and just get them to put their eyes and ears over it as soon as get it back,, ie if car comes back and still needs things fixing its best to do it right there and then ie reject the car for not fit for purpose etc,
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Quick update on this, as want this post to help others who may have the same issue.
Had a call from the garage to come pick the car up, so went up yesterday to check it over and do a long 20 mile test drive before accepting the car.
They insist the issue was due to a split PCV valve, showed me the old one which did have a large slit in the rubber. I can also see the new valve and hose installed under the engine vanity cover.
I gave the a car a long blast from cold and to be fair to them not a single puff of smoke, so agreed to take the car home for a week and see how it runs.

Will check the turbo today/tomorrow to see the state of it and if any oil has left it's mark in there, the DPF is also something on my list of things to keep an eye on.
 
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That's very interesting.

Obviously your PCV was broken, but how that allowed unburnt oil into your exhaust is still pretty confusing to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Absolute mystery to me as well, the bit in yellow is the new replaced part, the PCV itself is under circled yellow connector.
I've been scratching my head at how oil can get from there all the way to the exhaust manifold and present itself in the exhaust tip. Even without thinking too hard it's the wrong side of the turbo, I could understand if it was the turbine/exhaust side having oil put in it. My only other theory is the PCV value failure somehow has created a scenario where oil has found it's way up and into the turbine side via the exhaust exit of the engine block 🤨

Found this vid an interesting watch Turbo leaks which suggest oil can be pushed back up the turbo oil escape tube due to crankcase pressure issues

280522
 
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what might of happened is when pcv was open when under boost as it should not be it might of pressurize the crankcase and forced oil past the seals in the turbo have seen this on mapped petrols,, also can be a sign of weak seals in the turbo chamber maybe thats what has happened and you would find oil in the inlet or pushed out the exhaust side.. deffo would not think it was caused by crankcase breathing vapour
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
@Mile1967 - that's the theory I am going with, defo an interesting one and hope this thread can help others out with similar symptoms (y)
 

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@Mile1967 - that's the theory I am going with, defo an interesting one and hope this thread can help others out with similar symptoms (y)
just hope its not weakened the seals in the turbo going forward,, if when your driving you feel car starts to rev by it self you need to stall it in gear ie turbo when it fails can cause diesel runaway
i've had it myself a few times they rev 10,000 revs cant switch it off untill its eaten all the oil in the sump
 

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Absolute mystery to me as well, the bit in yellow is the new replaced part, the PCV itself is under circled yellow connector.
I've been scratching my head at how oil can get from there all the way to the exhaust manifold and present itself in the exhaust tip. Even without thinking too hard it's the wrong side of the turbo, I could understand if it was the turbine/exhaust side having oil put in it. My only other theory is the PCV value failure somehow has created a scenario where oil has found it's way up and into the turbine side via the exhaust exit of the engine block 🤨

Found this vid an interesting watch Turbo leaks which suggest oil can be pushed back up the turbo oil escape tube due to crankcase pressure issues

View attachment 280522
HI from france..I have same countryman and since yesterday it smokes a lot. It happens when the engine are hot enough (same as yours). I worried about the turbo is failed, but the engine running normaly..i noticed some oil as well on the exhaust..do you think i have problem with the PVC valve too? i think i will replace it first (we'll never know) before checking the turbo. Could you advise me the parts number of the PCV valve or maybe the picture, so then i can buy it. Many thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Morning Antz

I can't provide the part numbers I am afraid as it was garage I bought the car from who replaced the PCV, but I can tell you that since it was done 2 months ago the car has been absolutely fine so luckily no turbo failure on my car.
From memory the parts are about £120 and were sourced from BMW directly, the give away was the old PCV had a big tear in the rubber circular rubber diaphragm, perhaps worth dismantling yours and inspecting for damage?

Phil
 

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Morning Antz

I can't provide the part numbers I am afraid as it was garage I bought the car from who replaced the PCV, but I can tell you that since it was done 2 months ago the car has been absolutely fine so luckily no turbo failure on my car.
From memory the parts are about £120 and were sourced from BMW directly, the give away was the old PCV had a big tear in the rubber circular rubber diaphragm, perhaps worth dismantling yours and inspecting for damage?

Phil
Glad to hear that,so no problem with the turbo then. Hopefully wil be the same case with my car. Ok i will do inspecting the PCV tomorrow.
Many thanks for your informations.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Let's hope so, I was amazed such a simple part could cause such a dramatic problem
 
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