[cmt]

As some of you are aware, I am in the process of trying to reject my MINI for being sub-standard and pulling left badly (which they can't fix).

My meeting with the BMW Regional Technical Manager is on Wednesday (he decides if they'll take the car back or not), any advice from the people who've been through this already would be greatly received. If all goes well, and all indications (from my dealer and other dealers) are that it will (I will be taking legal action if it doesn't), I need to decide which way to go, new car/refund and how much to push for. Did you get the full value of your car/finance? Finance cleared, payments back, deposit back etc.... In total I've payed £1600 towards the MINI so far and I don't like the thought of losing that much money I also have approx £12500 as a settlement for the finance. BMW keep saying they'll charge me for having use of the vehicle and calling it a 'Buy Back' I'm not asking them to buy it back, I'm asking for a FULL refund, that is the line I intend to take. Advice???

 

[Basil]

I'm sure others here will give you a written reply, but here's some other threads on the subject:

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2991&highlight=rejecting

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3130&highlight=rejecting

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3312&highlight=rejecting

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3014&highlight=rejecting

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3031&highlight=rejecting

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3032&highlight=rejecting

There are others.....just stick "rejecting" into the search engine.

Sorry to hear another MINI has come to this sorry state of affairs......

 

[cmt]

Thanks Basil, that made very interesting reading (I'd missed a couple of the threads). Not sure if it gave me any faith in BMW though...

 

[Basil]

Thanks Basil, that made very interesting reading (I'd missed a couple of the threads). Not sure if it gave me any faith in BMW though...

Your welcome, and no I don't expect it did. BMW are between a rock and a hard place at the moment. The fact that they are even considering replacing cars, should give at least some creedance to the thought that they are trying to do the right thing with current MINI customers.

I spoke at length to a senior person from BMW Australia Group who had recently come back from a fact finding mission to the UK. His comments are in my "Formal Letter to BMW Group Australia" thread. I found him to be extremely sympathetic towards UK customers. He's an ex pat himself. My S order hinged on that conversation, and I know it's not much help to you. But my faith was restored. I have not stated everything he said to me.

Anyway, I hope you work things out with BMW to your satisfaction as the customer.

keep us posted.

cheers

 

[ricardo]

Refund following rejection and finance deals

We really need a lawyer's answer but, my understanding of contract law is that you would entitled to your money back in full ("goods back - money back"). However, MINI/BMW probably can't be held liable for consequential losses or additional finance agreement expenses.

Might be a different story if your car is financed under the MINI dealer arrangement. It will definitely be a different story if the finance deal is a Consumer Credit Act regulated agreement? If so, the finance company is jointly liable for the faulty goods and can be made to refund ALL of the monies paid so far.

Good luck.

 

[dinger]

Re: Refund following rejection and finance deals

We really need a lawyer's answer but, my understanding of contract law is that you would entitled to your money back in full ("goods back - money back"). However, MINI/BMW probably can't be held liable for consequential losses or additional finance agreement expenses.

Might be a different story if your car is financed under the MINI dealer arrangement. It will definitely be a different story if the finance deal is a Consumer Credit Act regulated agreement? If so, the finance company is jointly liable for the faulty goods and can be made to refund ALL of the monies paid so far.

Good luck.

All hp/finance agreements are regulated now.

 

[R1]

cmt, just quote Watchdog. If BMW are dishing out new MINI's after one electrical fault, your laughing!

 

[cmt]

Thanks for all your comments/support. I will let you all know how it goes as soon as I can.
Colin.

 

[cmt]

New MINI meeting starts 11am, 11.05 The End...

Had the meeting with the Regional Technical Manager today(all 5 minutes of it). They didn't even test drive the car, said they didn't need to as they've driven enough with this fault to know what it feels like already. I'm really glad I took the whole day off.... NOT!!! Thanks BMW. They have no intention of taking my car back as a reject yet as a fix is on its way in March (heard that before anywhere???) Looks like I'll have to wait and see or sell it privately(any offers over 12500?) looks like I'll be in a MINI for a little while yet...

 

[dinger]

Hi Cmt,

Sorry to hear that news,but to me that is not acceptable have you thought of taking it further,ie the motoring press,CAB,etc.

Why should you and all the other members with those sought of faults wait till march.


BMW DONT YOU THINK YOU HAVE HAD ENOUGH TIME TO FIND A FIX !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DO WHATS RIGHT AND REPLACE THESE CARS

 

[cmt]

maybe I will... First call tomorrow will be to customer services to give them one last chance then an email to all the press, watchdog and a call to C.A.B. if they can't help. Or maybe I'll just cut my losses and go? Maybe I'll have a go at selling it private if I can't get the figures right through my friendly dealer you know who you are... (NOT WILLIAMS/IAN ANTHONY (BOLTON) ) who knows. One thing is for sure, I will never buy another MINI/BMW. (I'm looking at a nearly new MR2 at the moment). Thanks again.

 

[Basil]

One thing is for sure, I will never buy another MINI/BMW. (I'm looking at a nearly new MR2 at the moment). Thanks again.

Sorry to hear that...... best of luck with it.

 

[cmt]

I'm currently trying to see if MINI customer services can influence the dealer into buying it back (at a loss) as a good will gesture (and totally reverse my opinion of BMWs customer service skills in the process) as the'shean' has been taken off the whole MINI owning experience for me now. I no longer want this car. I may well return to MINI when they sort out the current problems, until then my pound (or maybe a few more of them) can buy much more car.

 

[Dogger]

Scotthall in Leeds reckon that I am obliged to let them repair each fault 3 times before I have any kind of case for rejection (under the Sale of Goods Act).

The dealers have been pretty fair with me so far, so I have no reason to doubt them on this, but does anyone know it this is kosher information?

 

[M]

Dogger Yes it is sort of. Reasonable opportunity to repair is what they say. Three is reasonable, but not each fault, that could go on forever. For most manufacturers if there are three major faults on the same or related components then the part gets junked and replaced, eg, big end bearing wears, crankshaft is loose, fractures big end, excess movement in crankshaft causes cylinder to score the bore, damages cylinder. Damaged Crankshaft, cylinder and cylinder bore = new engine. They can't try and repair that three times. So yes they need a couple of go's to fix most things as the repairing process is often a process of elimination, but if there are an excessive number of faults to check then rejection becomes an option.

 

[LMB]

Scotthall in Leeds reckon that I am obliged to let them repair each fault 3 times before I have any kind of case for rejection (under the Sale of Goods Act).

I think that if fair enough should a fault develop. But I think it is a totally different kettle of fish if they sold you a faulty car in the first place. At the moment they are selling cars to customers some of which suffer from this 'Pulling to the left' syndrome. At present they have no fix for this problem, so surely the customer has a right to request a new car. After all it is quite a major fault, if it was a problem with the air con for instance, then I don't think many people would mind waiting. But as it is a fault that alters the handling of a car then they should do the right thing and replace the car.

LMB

 

[Dogger]

Cheers guys,

To date my fix list totals around 7 seperate bit and peices including drift (fixed but still drifting). Each of the other problems have been corrected only to be followed by a new one a week or so later.

Afficionados of this site may remember my initial 'cheer up' mentality when the 1st niggles started to surface, and I'm still a huge fan of the car - but I'm pretty close to getting competeley irrational with them down at Scothall if they give me the 'it's a new car/factory/production team line one more time...

None of the problems worry me unduly in themselves, but the frustration of having to take the car in for repair every few weeks since collection last October, coupled with the 'what's going to drop off the car next' thought that is constantly in the back of my mind is getting pretty wearing..

The thought of all the negative karma that a rejection scenario would bring about is the only thing keeping me going at the moment..winters are glum enough in England without all that hassle too..

 

[LMB]

The thought of all the negative karma that a rejection scenario would bring about is the only thing keeping me going at the moment..winters are glum enough in England without all that hassle too..

I know what you mean, but I think it time to get tough Dogger When it has got to the stage when you have lost faith in the car, you have to forget about niceties and get what you should have got in the first place, a fault free car.

It is quite bizarre how they use the excuse 'all new cars experience niggles' and??

Trouble is you can love a car so much you try and pretend they are onlyniggles

Ho Hum

LMB

 

[Dogger]

I know what you mean, but I think it time to get tough Dogger When it has got to the stage when you have lost faith in the car, you have to forget about niceties and get what you should have got in the first place, a fault free car.

It is quite bizarre how they use the excuse 'all new cars experience niggles' and??

Trouble is you can love a car so much you try and pretend they are onlyniggles

Ho Hum

LMB

Quite right LMB....Geoff @ Scotthall in Leeds...r u listening?...This is what I was trying to get accross on Tuesday when you were giving me the 'official BMW complaints procedure response'.. (OK so that maybe a little harsh, but I've just had a day of people telling me at work that I should ram the car down your throat!)

 

[blade929]

If they persist with 'but this is a new car Sir' Bo**ocks, then I think I might just blow a fuse.

I appreciate it is a new car, I know there might be teething troubles. BUT, we all paid top dollar for these cars.

If they had said "Certainly Sir here is your MINI order, Oh and by the way take £2000 off for the beta testing you will be carrying out" then I think none of us would be worried about the situation. However we all paid the going rate, with very little if any discount ( I was promised a full tank of fuel - Did'nt even get that in the end).

Come on BMW, years of development and now getting on for 6 months real world motoring and still the faults keep coming. I am really quite concerned what type of faults 20,000+ mileage car may start to exhibit.

I really do hope that our replacement car is fault free. If not, I don't think I could go through all this hassle again. How many replacements do you think you could get away with