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6X therapist
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Tone said:
goonery -

Respect, but are you able to reveal your sources, please, because (as Paul says) this contradicts all that we know so far ?
I can't reaveal the source, but !, BMW have an engine plant which is shall we say suffering from an overcapacity situation, the plant was built with the idea of Rover and Land Rover still being part of BMW, and this would have supplied engines, in addition to 6 and 8 cyl petrol and diesels from other BMW plants for
many models, the K series would have eventually died. Consequently the Hams Hall facility is capable of building many more engines than it currently does, investment in the plant at start up confirms this. So it is in any good business the practice to sweat the assets to get a return on investment quickly. Therefore althoiugh a joint design with PSA makes sense, two sets of tooling and dual production centres UK & maybe France would provide an economic 'escape' route. In addition, the manufacture of MINI engines at Hams Hall under BMW control would allow development of MINI specific variants to be built under BMW conditions of quality.
France is not out of the question, but Hams Hall would be a sensible option, shipping engines across the channel, distance, ability to shorten the supply chain time, thus building engines to order, it all makes good sense. Hope this helps answer the question, I'm available for lectures on automotive supply chain issues;)
 

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6X therapist
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More ....
The distance thing means that current engines have to be built well in advance of use, and stockpiled/warehoused to cover for ships not arrivng etc. etc. This costs money, which the customer (you) have to fork out for. In these days of lean production, it actually suits car makers (any business really), to have the suppliers on the doorstep of the assembly operation wherever possible
 

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as for the twin-cam on the MC.....i wuz reffering to both MC and MCS, being that they currently share the same engin.......it would only make sence to have a twin cam in the S also. as far as it taking up room, yes....it does take up some space...but not by much....im sure if u wanted to swap a B16 honda engine in it.....it would definatly fit....though there is the issue of diff engin mounts and such. but as far as the current engin, i think it is seriously underpowered......with a base price of nearly 20 grand for the MCS, i would rather get the SRT-4, more bang for the buck. If you couldnt tell, MINI is loosing an ongoing battle w/ its competition: Focus SVT, Neon SRT-4, Mazdaspeed proteje, Civic SI.....as u can see, all these cars are cheaper then the MCS, but yet....yeild more performance. If MINI doesnt wise up on its choice of engins, itll all go down hill, and ide really hate for that to happen
 

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As an afterthought, elsewhere on here I mentioned that Magna Steyr are building (or should I say "assembling") cars for three different manufacturers in the same factory in Austria. I now see that the company is part of a Canadian group, Magna International. Could you get any more multinational than that?
 

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Also in Italy many Mini fan want to know the next generation engine for Cooper S.
For me, in a small traction avant like Mini the best engine is a line four clinder and naturally aspirated. BMW in '80's produced one of the best four cilnder ever seen: the M3 and 320Is E30 engine. Why not for Cooper S? ;)
Now the best 2.0 in the world is Honda Vtec, i like to think of Mini powered by Honda.

French engine: i had a Peugeot 205 1.9 130cv many years ago and the car was extremely fast and exciting. But not for engine expecially.
The 180cv 2.0 of 206RC seems good, but i don't know very well.
The Rover K Series instead is a bad engine, my friends ith Lotus Elise or Exige don' talk well about it: few HP and reliability is only very light.
 

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as for the future engine for the cooper....it would be really hott is it could have the old school M3 engin (the 4 banger), and for the S...a supercharged old school M3
 

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MINI2 No.1
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Future BMW - PSA Engines.

I've had to chop out a load of off-topic posts from this discussion. This thread is about the future BMW/Peugeot Citroen Group engines for the MINI.

Not about other cars and what might, could be, is, or isn't faster, nicer, better than the MINI. Nor is it about other MINI related subjects.

Please keep it on topic, if you want to talk about other things, find a thread already open discussing what you want to discuss, or start a new discussion in the appropriate forum.

Thank you.
 

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Track Pal
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These are the thoughts I had regarding the Cooper S and new Peugeot motors put in the Australian Social section yesterday "Yeah, no s/c ain't good. The proposed new motor for the MCS has LESS torque than the current 1.6L 200NM vs 210.. If you go to the JCW site, you get some clues about modifing normally aspirated engines by seeing what they have done to the cooper. New cylinder head, air intake, exhaust & chip for a pile of money and gain 11HP!! If BMW dump the s/c for the new model Cooper S then they will effectively kill off any seriousness to the that model. 7.3 for 0-100kmh is simply not sporty for 2005/6 and with no easy path to increase performance a large number of current MCS owners won't be upgrading to it. I don't know how firm these engine plan futures are but I am feeling disappointed. Real disappointed." I guess my question is the proposed new motor definitely not going to be supercharged for the Cooper S model? Because if that is the case, performance mods will be expensive with relatively small power gains. Already the proposed new "S" motor rated at 130KW is weak in today's market and will be even more so by 2005/6 with less scope for effective tuning unlike the current forced induction "S" engine.
 

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It was always my understanding that BMW played an important engineering role in the design of the current 1.6 liter units so we already have a "BMW designed" engine. As for the claim that the Rover K series engine wouldn't fit, there is an interesting picture in the MINI book showing just such an engine in one of the prototypes so that wasn't the problem. Rather, it came to the engine's inability to meet future emission requirements to the extent that it was cheaper to reengineer a completely new powerplant.

Actually, a Peugeot engine will probably be a plus as they have a great reputation of producing bulletproof engines; their weakness (speaking from experience as the owner of many French cars when they were sold here) was usually in the packaging under the bonnet rendering service a virtual nightmare. Hopefully, BMW will keep their hands in that part of the design as they did with the current engine.

I wouldn't worry about it though it does make for an interesting discussion.
 

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Track Pal
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Hi NFO, would prefer a supercharged engine from the factory as a first choice. 2nd would be turbo from the factory. If this isn't the case, a low pressure turbo as an aftermarket mod may be OK but then you have expenses such as an effective intercooler and all the plumbing. Insurance of the car with significant mods like an aftermarket Turbo and voiding of factory warranty is real pain too.
 

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MINI Traitor
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Greendevil said:
Hi NFO, would prefer a supercharged engine from the factory as a first choice. 2nd would be turbo from the factory. If this isn't the case, a low pressure turbo as an aftermarket mod may be OK but then you have expenses such as an effective intercooler and all the plumbing. Insurance of the car with significant mods like an aftermarket Turbo and voiding of factory warranty is real pain too.
I'm right there with you. I think going to a n/a S would be a backward step. :(

On the positive side, it means I won't be tempted to upgrade, which is a good thing :) :)
 

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I have just got some updated information concerning Engines and Powertrains:

The new Prince Engine will be built at Douvrin according to my list!
2006 is when production starts, but there will still be some old Tritec engines built into 2007

These are the SOP (start of production) dates for the various engines, gearboxes and model versions. The Toyota 75hp diesel engines continue into R56 (there is also no higher powered diesel listed :( )

2006 1.6l 140hp 6-speed R50
2007 1.6l 110hp 6-speed R50
2007 1.6l 110hp CVT R50
2007 1.4l 75hp 5-speed R56
2007 1.4l 90hp 6-speed R56
2007 1.4l 90hp CVT R56
2007 1.6l 110hp 6-speed R56
2007 1.6l 110hp CVT R56
2007 1.6l 140hp 6-speed R56
2007 1.6l 170hp 6-speed R56

All of these Petrol engined variants would also appear in a Mini Roadster as of End 2008

Also interesting is that all engines apart from the 75hp have the 6-speed gearbox.
All of the petrol engines are DOHC
I don't have torque figures for any of the Petrol engines (probably because they are not yet know) :rolleyes:
And, of course, the 170hp engine is Turbocharged

That pretty much summarises the list, looks like 2006 will be the bad year to buy a Mini unless end of life discounts are plentiful ;)
 
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