Brakes

3474 Views 24 Replies 16 Participants Last post by Polmear, Jul 25, 2003

LMB

Discussion Starter · Feb 5, 2002 (Edited)

I have noticed that sometimes when I brake, it feels like when when you your brakes pads are shot, that metal to metal feeling, and it sounds like it aswell. Is this usual or is something a miss?

Cheers

LMB

PS./ My car has only done 500 miles so maybe they are not bed in yet?

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

baldie

· #2 · Feb 5, 2002

I have noticed that our discs get a bit corroded if left even just overnight in rain.

First few times you hit the brakes the next morning it sounds rough.

Dave

monsta

· #3 · Feb 5, 2002

I think it is a problem with alloy wheels and discs all round, they are open to the elements. Mine go a bit rusty looking when you wash the car....

fearofmanc

· #4 · Feb 9, 2002

The handbook suggests a light application of the handbrake when coasting to a stop, which would presumably clean some of the filth off the rear discs. Has anybody else tried this, and is it commonplace advice for cars with rear discs? (My previous cars have had drums at the back.)

kjs

· #5 · Feb 10, 2002

fearofmanc said:
The handbook suggests a light application of the handbrake when coasting to a stop,

you mean you don't use the handbrake when turning?

An_S_4_Mutley

· #6 · Feb 10, 2002

I always use my handbrake when I need to 'coast to a stop'

hehehe

Johnboy

· #7 · Feb 11, 2002

fearofmanc said:
The handbook suggests a light application of the handbrake when coasting to a stop.....

I read this too... It's really bizarre - are they suggesting that the rear pads NEVER touch the rear discs when you apply the foot-brake?!!
I did once manage to bind the pads to the discs when I parked up for 3 weeks in November... but only momentarily.
I guess I was yanking the handbrake on as hard as I used to in the Audi.

Would have thought you'd more likely stretch the handbrake cable.

J.

space_cadet

· #8 · Feb 12, 2002

Not bizzare at all, as the handbrake does not use the
rear disk and pads at all. In fact there is a more traditional brake drum and shoes used solely for the handbrake. In effect the internal surface of the centre
part of the disc is used as a drum. The recommendation to
partially apply the handbrake sometimes with the car moving
is to help any corrosion to be removed. This is something
that would not normally happen because the handbrake
is only usually applied with everything stationary, and as such there would be no self cleaning action caused by the
action of the shoes against the drum.

Most BMWs have brakes in this configuration.

Basil

· #9 · Feb 12, 2002

kjs said:
you mean you don't use the handbrake when turning?

For all those people with

"CAUTION - VEHICLE FREQUENTLY SIDEWAYS" stickers on the back window......

Johnboy

· #10 · Feb 12, 2002

space_cadet said:
Not bizzare at all.... In effect the internal surface of the centre part of the disc is used as a drum.....

Cheers Mr. Spaceman - You are a mine of info - Are you Mr. Haynes in disguise

So, does that mean the rear disks have a different diameter to the front ones, and therefore diff. calipers and pads to boot?
That explains why my handbrake stuck on after a long period rested up. Are the drums/shoes of the usual "self adjusting" variety?
Is this the standard way of "handbraking" a car with disks front/back?
I gather the pressure you'd otherwise have to exert to keep the car stationary (just on the pads) would be enormous... Can you confirm?! ...
I heard a potential urban myth that some Rover SD1s had disks front/rear, and they had a habit of rolling off when parked!

karmuze

· #11 · Feb 12, 2002 (Edited)

Not True

Originally posted by space_cadet
Not bizzare at all, as the handbrake does not use the
rear disk and pads at all. In fact there is a more traditional brake drum and shoes used solely for the handbrake.

If you look at this cutaway view from the MINI2 gallery, it looks to me as if the MINI has a dual-cable, lever operated mechanical actuator acting on the same rear disks, that the hydraulically operated road brakes do. (inboard on the rear caliper)

A separate rear drum handbrake setup would add a level of complexity and more cost. But since I don't own a MINI, much less have even seen or driven one, I could be wrong.

P.S. Thanks to MINIAC for providing details on thumbnail posting.

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BI GAL

· #12 · Feb 13, 2002

space_cadet said:
Not bizzare at all, as the handbrake does not use the
rear disk and pads at all. In fact there is a more traditional brake drum and shoes used solely for the handbrake. In effect the internal surface of the centre
part of the disc is used as a drum.

Just like my old Vauxhall Carlton then.......

That had exactly the same set-up as described by above, and was built in the mid 1980's so the MINI is hardly braking new ground.......(pun intended - hence the spelling)

Hopefully, that's the only thing my MINI and carlton have in common

karmuze

· #13 · Feb 13, 2002 (Edited)

2

Rear Drum or Disk Handbrake

I found some pictures of the rear Cooper suspension on the net that show the handbrake and caliper. I think these show that the handbrake does operate on the existing rear disk brake pads. If so, then that could explain why some cars are rolling with the handbrake set, as a disk actuated handbrake is harder to set than drum handbrake, especially when it is wet.

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Mr T

· #14 · Feb 14, 2002

Dealer told me when I picked the car up that it is not the same design as BMWs, but a pad type (whatever that means).

karmuze

· #15 · Feb 14, 2002 (Edited)

Pad type brakes

I think that what he was saying was, that the MINI handbrake applies pressure on the same pad/disk that is used for the road brakes. However, the handbrake uses mechanical pressure to move the caliper piston, rather than hydraulic pressure of the road brakes.

The photo above shows that the handbrake cable terminates at the caliper, not the center of the hub which would be the case with a separate drum brake emergency brake.

The above photos were taken from the minimania.com website and shows the MINI Cooper they received on Aug 15, 2001, and it is RHD without pull to the left.

The photos were taken before they modified it for racing. They replaced the OEM suspension with KONI coilovers, modified the rear suspension with Heim joints to give camber & castor adjustment to the rear, and added 12.9" Brembo brakes to go with the upgraded 17x7 BBS wheels.

orie's_mini

· #16 · Feb 15, 2002

talking about hand brakes, i hope it's ok for this question on this thread.
i noticed that on the MINI, the handbrake lever gets pulled up much higher than my ex-Golf for example. like i kinda lift off my seat a little to reach the max. i just got my MINI for 2 weeks now

karmuze

· #17 · Feb 15, 2002

handbrake adjustment

Hi orie!

Your handbrake just needs a simple adjustment to make it right. Sounds as if it wasn't adjusted at the factory. Handbrakes need to be adjusted periodically due to the cables stretching over time and also wear of the disk pads. I find I need to adjust mine once a year. I don't own a MINI yet.

On my current car there is an adjustment screw at each caliper to bring the pad in contact with the disk, then backed off a half a turn for clearance. This needs to be done with the rear of the car raised, wheels off and cold brakes, to be proper. After that is done on both sides, then the cover on the handbrake lever between the seats can be removed and an adjustment nut turned to take up any slack on the right and the left cables.

Some mechanics will take a short cut and adjust the handbrake only at the racheting lever inside the car. This can lead to a different pressure applied to the pads on the rear calipers. Take it to your MINI dealer and have him put it right.

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Pglenning

· #18 · Feb 16, 2002

Sounds like a old London Taxi

My rear brakes sound like they are shot(metal to metal), not very good when people are look at my MINI and then I start to brake and it sounds like a OLD london taxi!!

PG

orie's_mini

· #19 · Feb 18, 2002

Re: handbrake adjustment

karmuze said:
Hi orie!

This can lead to a different pressure applied to the pads on the rear calipers. Take it to your MINI dealer and have him put it right.

Hi Karmuze
Thanks!
Just wondered if anyone else got the same problem in their MINI. kinda weird for a new car though.

'THE MIGHTY IMP'

· #20 · Jul 24, 2003

ask your dealer to look at the inner brake pads, particularly on the rear of the car.

my outer pads looked as new, but the inner pads had worn away to the bare metal 'shims'

my metal on metal noise meant having the rear brake discs replaced. i refused to pay. i believe it is a fault, as they outer and inner pads should wear at the same time.

bmw's official policy is to only check the outer pad width even at inspections/services because the inner ones are harder to see! get them underneath the car with a torch and a mirror if need be!

my car took two days to fix, and they wouldn't let me drive it away because it was dangerous to drive. this was one month after a 'miles' inspection, where they check the brakes, (but as i say, only the outer pads) and also having had the emergency service technician out, who thought it was probably a stone and let me drive the car away with dangerous brakes. 8 days later i took the car in and they actually bothered to look at the inner ones.

do not take no for an answer!

ian M

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