[sconnor]

I rang my local dealer today to spec up my MINI one which i had ordered on saturday. I asked them to order a single slot CD player which i thought would cost 70pounds, but i was informed i would also have to order a Boost pack for 135pounds as well, making a grand total of 205pounds. Is this correct? Can anyone help me?

 

[MN]

This is correct, You haven`t really got a choice as BMW say that the current CD player would not work well with the speakers etc. Why, I don`t know as a tape and a CD player have the same speaker outputs.

I think they messed up and the CD player had low level ouputs for feeding an Amp directly and not direct speaker outputs, leaving the customer know option but buy the `Booster`

 

[Rob.]

I ordered my cooper back in early June and specified a Single CD. I wanted the MINIdisc but was told I would have to wait longer for that option and it would cost the £100 plus £135 for the BOOST. I agreed to settle for the single CD as this only cost £70 as it didn\'t require the BOOST, or so i was told. I am hopefully getting the single CD for £70, but you never know, he may contact me to ask for the extra. I would be really pissed off, paying over £12000 for a car and then being asked for extra. Maybe all the orders that went through before the dealers knew of the change will be honoured, I hope so.

 

[ICEman]

OK lets settle this. I can tell you the official stand on the option.

1. You get a \"WAVE\" radio as standard with the car, this is a mechanical Tape deck, 4x7W, 6 speakers.

2. The BOOST option is a higher powered range of head units. 4x20W, with a whole load of features and possible car configuration. If you want amplifier, Navi, Tel prep, etc, you need this. The 135 quid is for Cassette (electronic), on top of that, there is 70 quid for CD or 100 quid for MD. The outputs all drive exactly the same speakers, so that was duff info. Only when you choose H7K hifi option will you get all new speakers, which the Amp drives.

I hope that is clear.

If you have paid 70 quid for a CD, you have a bargain. BMW pays loads more than that for it. Aftermarket units are much cheaper, but there are plenty of reasons for that!!

 

[ICEman]

Just to clarify on the 4 head units:

Wave = Cassette version - Europe only - comes as standard - CD changer and MFL as options

BOOST = 3 higher powered head units 4x20W RMS.

BOOST CASSETTE - 135 quid - Cassette - world markets - fully integerated with H/K, navi, phone, etc etc

BOOST CD - 135 + 70 quid - as above, but CD

BOOST MD - 135 + 100 quid - as above, but MD

Harman / Kardon Hifi option is only available with Boost Radios - Cost - I am not sure what is what here.

 

[MN]

If you have paid 70 quid for a CD, you have a bargain. BMW pays loads more than that for it. Aftermarket units are much cheaper, but there are plenty of reasons for that!!

Have you taken into account the cassette player which is no longer required??

 

[ICEman]

Yes, I had taken that into account, it would still be very cheap. You wouldn\'t believe the cost of these radios.

The radio will cost BMW about 200 quid, when you take into account the design, tooling, piece cost etc etc.

Shocking aint it?

 

[MN]

The radio will cost BMW about 200 quid, when you take into account the design, tooling, piece cost etc etc.

I bet they are only paying £50 even with design and development taken into account with the volumes they have predicted. If they are paying £200 quid they have been done, there is far better head units available now to the consumer for loads less than £200 quid, so BMW could have just fitted an aftermarket radio and make big money. The specification of the CD player is hardly advanced and adding feature does not really bump up the price as electronic components and PCB`s are not expensive. You don`t work for BMW marketing do you.

 

[ICEman]

BMW yes - marketting NO, I wouldn\'t know this much about the ICE system or Electrical system!!

unofficially:

The radio costs 120 quid - piece price. The tooling for each faceplate (so there are 4 of them) cost about 200 000 quid each. The cost comes in when you integrate different sources, like Navi, DSP, Tel, Aux, TV, Video, Headphone output, CD cahnger, Steering wheel controls etc etc.

Aftermarket units are not fitted for a number of reasons. Most importantly they are not reliable enough. The cost of unreliable radios is phenomenal, as any Rover dealer, Rover ICE engineer. Also aftermarket radios would never pass the vehicle tests (vibration, hot, cold, humidity etc. 1 Radio for Mini must go everywhere, not just Japan, USA, UK & Europe, where virtually all sales are made on Aftermarket units which you see.

Sorry, I have to tell you that you are wrong on this one.

The other point of discussion is Power -There is just no way of telling the actual power of a 4x40W aftermarket unit. I keep getting asked the power of Mini radios, but I can not seem to get and give a definative answer. Its a nightmare

 

[MN]

Ive just delivered a front bumper for the MG 75 where the tooling cost was £300,000, why does it cost £200,000 for a poxy face plate. Am I missing something ?

The other point of discussion is Power -There is just no way of telling the actual power of a 4x40W aftermarket unit

Why don`t you test it? Simple

The radio will cost BMW about 200 quid, when you take into account the design, tooling, piece cost etc etc. The radio costs 120 quid - piece price. The tooling for each faceplate (so there are 4 of them) cost about 200 000 quid each.

Where did you get £200 from then? When you consider the volumes that are predicted even with the tooling costs and design & development even if if was amortised into the piece cost it would probably only be £130

 

[Rob.]

ICEman, just to get it straight in my head are the speakers the same for both the WAVE and BOOST systems?
Is it only the output that changes?
4 x 7watts for wave and 4 x 20 watts for the BOOST.

So, if the above is correct are we paying for a better head unit. You say about the single CD comes with a cassette (electronic). I don\'t really know what you mean as the single CD does not have a cassette on the models i have seen. I am a little confused.

 

[ICEman]

The BOOST radio - is effectively the same as Business Radios for BMW - if you know that.

There are 3 variants of BOOST radios.

1. With cassette.

2. With CD

3. With MD

No cassette and CD in the same car. Sorry to confuse, but I thought it was clear!!

You don\'t just pay for the power. Most work on these radios goes into integrating all the other features. The MINI WAVE has very few features you can add to it.

 

[ICEman]

MN

It is clear you are not electrically educated. The POXY faceplate has a few more parts than your bumper - I would think. I did mean that all the buttons etc are part of that 200K

Measure the Power - well good idea. Would you take into consideration the THD, Heat loss, Input Voltage, Maximum, Minimum, average, guaranteed, transient pulses? Let me know which ones and I will tell you the power. Its as easy as that.

I am sure the aftermarkey head units don\'t use guaranteed, 1% THD average output, but what do they use - this is a huge area of conflict

Nice Bumper though - did it pass EMC?

Did you know the ICE system is the most complex and costly of any part on the car?

 

[gazzaman28]

But if I\'m right, to upgrade from a Wave radio cassette to a Boost CD or MD you have to first pay for a Boost radio cassette, and also pay for your CD or MD player? Unless all Boost systems come with an amp as well as the head unit, this doesn\'t make any sense!!!

 

[ICEman]

The mechanism for a cassette is much cheaper than a CD or MD. The additional cost for these, which I think is a bit high takes that into account.

The big problem is, that if you have a basic - WAVE radio, to change it to a BOOST later - say if you knew a dealer, the connector is different.

It could be very expensive to change this.

I don\'t make the rules or prices.

A thought - if you could order a non Europe spec car, you would have to get a BOOST radio, as the WAVE would not work. I don\'t know how this point will be resolved.

Its all MONEY MONEY MONEY

 

[smartbomb]

Hi Iceman,
A question for you...
Have you any news or info on the Harmon Kardon system...such as price, specification, power and availablilty ?
Thanks..

I can appreciate the cost of tooling up for the audio systems.....used to work in car assembly design.....and they never make up their minds do they ??

 

[ICEman]

H/K

Yes, but no price. I have to go, for a week in the sun now, so I will put down all I know.

H/K hifi option will consist or the following

1. All new speakers - obviously H/K design
2. An amp - DSP 10x40W - yeas you do get 10 channels (the normal tweeter becomes a mid & tweeter together and the rear 6x9s have 2 channels in each)
3. New wiring as the audio handling is very different - so don\'t expect to get the bits and upgrade yourself.

what you get - well it sounds better. A DSP amp is tunable to the car, so it should bve much better on the ears. You get preset DSP functions - like your JAZZ CLUB, HALL; CATHEDRAL etc, the se you can select at will, they are called ELECTRONIC, INSTRUMENTAL, FESTIVAL and SPATIAL. You have the option of also aligning the speakers to all hit your ears at the same time - if you are driving alone for example - as the passenger will get so confused with the time difference they would hear. This feature makes you realise why listening to headphones can be so much clearer as the time to get to your ears is the same.

I think that covers most of it.

SORRY HVAE TO GO, BACK 30th JULY

 

[ICEman]

Oh MN, before I go, comparing your Bumper price.

I have checked and there are 47 new parts on the CD which needed to be tooled, maybe I should have made that clear.

Parts list total cor CD: 1201

Ciao

 

[smartbomb]

Thanks Iceman,
Wow, sounds like quite a system ! Look forward to hearing it for myself sometime.HK home systems are pretty special, quite understated but excellent quality..hope this translates into the MINI.
Anyone any news of cost yet ! ?

 

[MN]

There may be 40 seperate parts but you wouldn`t tool each button seperately you would try to get as much components out of a tool as possible IMO. How many seperate tools are there?

You still haven`t answered why the CD player costs £200 to BMW, if they are paying £120 per radio then the £70 extra at the volumes that BMW have predicted the Design & Development, Tooling etc. must add up to hundreds of millions of pounds.

If you cannot measure power output how are you quoting figures for the Wave, and Boost radio, your contradicting your self here. Surely there is a laboratory standard under which the output of a radio is tested? which takes into account the voltage input, Ohm load and THD etc. When I was at school we used The power formula : P=U²/R ,with : U= RMS voltage on the amplifier output, P= RMS power and R the continuous impedance of the speaker.

I`t may seem I`m having a bit of a dig but I just cannot see BMW paying £200 for the CD player.