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Hi there,

I've read a few posts from people advocating giving the MINI an oil change after the run-in period... what is the general opinion on the worthwhile-ness of this? I've given my 2005 MCS a fairly vigorous run-in, so not really keeping the revs down. Took it easy the first 300 miles and then progressively increased the vigorousness of my driving! I'd read enough about running in periods on here to decide not to pamper the car too much... does that make an oil change more necessary?
Also, if I were to get my local garage to change the oil (and hence save myself probably about 100 quid) would that compromise my TLC? Would the BMW dealer be able to tell there'd been an oil change anyway?

Thanks all for your informed advice!
 

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Benny the Yellow Cab
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Speaking only for myself I could no more go 10,000 miles on my first oil change than I could go a week without a shower. Not possible.

I'll be changing at 2,000 miles. All arguments to the contrary are probably perfectly valid.

I can not do it :rolleyes:

Peter...in Denver
 

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a.k.a Handsome Rob
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With synthetic oil it does not need to be changed as much as conventional oil. However, The way the MINI decides it's oil change is by fuel injector rate per hour. Thats all fine and all but, on the first "batch" of oil there is a ton of metal particles that get into the oil from break in. True the oil filter catches a lot of it but no filter is 100%, it can't be or it would be a blockage. The fuel injectors can't tell how much particulate is in the oil. So I did my first oil change at 5,000 miles and my scheduled service is due in 150 miles. So actually that would be two early changes to get the particulate out. I plan on doing the rest by the computer after this one coming up.

The second part of your question I don't know how it is across the pond but here you can do your own oil changes and not void out the warranty but to reset the computer it needs to go to the dealer. I hope this helps.
Tavis1 :red:
 

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Here's interesting advice from "Honest John" from honestjohn.co.uk : I post it without comment.

What's the best way to run-in a petrol engine?

"Put the car on a rental fleet so it is driven by a lot of different drivers with different driving styles. Seriously, modern petrol engines are built extremely 'tight' so they need a bit of wear during the first 10,000 miles for the piston rings to bed properly into the bores. An early oil change to fully synthetic can prevent this happening, as can driving at low engine revs and driving at steady speeds. So, depending on the engine, self-impose yourself yourself a rev limit of between 4,000 and 5,000 for the first 1,000 miles, and be sure you vary your revs and occasionally reach that limit. After 1,000 miles, common sense dictates that you won't rev the nuts off the thing straight away, but you needn't be too worried about hitting 6,000 rpm occasionally as long as you vary the engine speed. Try never to rev to the rev limiter as the misfire this causes can damage the catalytic converter matrix. Don't change the oil and filter until the first manufacturer recommended change point, or the end of the first year. After that, if you intend keeping the car for a long time I still recommend more frequent oil and filter changes than the manufacturers or their on-board service indicators suggest. It's also a good idea to have the transmission oil changed after the first year to get rid of any swarf which could later be ground up into tiny particles which eventually get into the bearings and accelerate wear. "
 

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Lots of folks choose to change the oil before 10K miles, but I don't.

Why? Because I doubt there's anyone, anywhere, who has more knowledge of the MINI engine than the engineers who built it. If my warranty says 10K miles is best, why question it? However, if it makes one sleep better at night to change the oil every 2000 miles, great!

But for me, the BMW engineers recommendation seems best :D
 

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Early oil change might actually be bad?

andyupnorth said:
Here's interesting advice from "Honest John" from honestjohn.co.uk : I post it without comment.

What's the best way to run-in a petrol engine?

"Put the car on a rental fleet so it is driven by a lot of different drivers with different driving styles. Seriously, modern petrol engines are built extremely 'tight' so they need a bit of wear during the first 10,000 miles for the piston rings to bed properly into the bores. An early oil change to fully synthetic can prevent this happening, as can driving at low engine revs and driving at steady speeds. So, depending on the engine, self-impose yourself yourself a rev limit of between 4,000 and 5,000 for the first 1,000 miles, and be sure you vary your revs and occasionally reach that limit. After 1,000 miles, common sense dictates that you won't rev the nuts off the thing straight away, but you needn't be too worried about hitting 6,000 rpm occasionally as long as you vary the engine speed. Try never to rev to the rev limiter as the misfire this causes can damage the catalytic converter matrix. Don't change the oil and filter until the first manufacturer recommended change point, or the end of the first year. After that, if you intend keeping the car for a long time I still recommend more frequent oil and filter changes than the manufacturers or their on-board service indicators suggest. It's also a good idea to have the transmission oil changed after the first year to get rid of any swarf which could later be ground up into tiny particles which eventually get into the bearings and accelerate wear. "
So, according to this advice, the metal particulates floating around in the oil are actually necessary?

Hmm...
 

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Changed mine at 2000km.
Most engine wear occurs in the first couple of thousand kilometres.
Fine metal particles floating around in your oil can't be good for longevity.
 

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vagt6 said:
Lots of folks choose to change the oil before 10K miles, but I don't.

Why? Because I doubt there's anyone, anywhere, who has more knowledge of the MINI engine than the engineers who built it. If my warranty says 10K miles is best, why question it? However, if it makes one sleep better at night to change the oil every 2000 miles, great!

But for me, the BMW engineers recommendation seems best :D
An interesting point, this one.

I think that the "BMW engineers" had some input into the setting of the 10,000 mile first interval.

However, this interval would probably have been a compromise between the engineers, wanting a short interval, and the BMW marketing division and the people who have to pay for the services under the TLC scheme wanting something a good deal longer :rolleyes:

I would have expected a recommended first interval of about 2000 miles if it had been left completely to the engineering people at BMW.

Tigger.
 

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plantain said:
So, according to this advice, the metal particulates floating around in the oil are actually necessary?

Hmm...
Honest John basically says that you shouldn't change the oil to allow the engine to promote an element of wear to allow the engine to bed in properly. He repeats this many times in his column in the Daily Telegraph.

Also I think that some people get a bit too anal about changing oil. :eek: :D Yes, change your oil frequently if you plan to keep the car for years, but if like most people you change your car every 3 years then don't bother.
 

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andyupnorth said:
Here's interesting advice from "Honest John" from honestjohn.co.uk : I post it without comment.

What's the best way to run-in a petrol engine?

"Put the car on a rental fleet so it is driven by a lot of different drivers with different driving styles. Seriously, modern petrol engines are built extremely 'tight' so they need a bit of wear during the first 10,000 miles for the piston rings to bed properly into the bores. An early oil change to fully synthetic can prevent this happening, as can driving at low engine revs and driving at steady speeds. So, depending on the engine, self-impose yourself yourself a rev limit of between 4,000 and 5,000 for the first 1,000 miles, and be sure you vary your revs and occasionally reach that limit. After 1,000 miles, common sense dictates that you won't rev the nuts off the thing straight away, but you needn't be too worried about hitting 6,000 rpm occasionally as long as you vary the engine speed. Try never to rev to the rev limiter as the misfire this causes can damage the catalytic converter matrix. Don't change the oil and filter until the first manufacturer recommended change point, or the end of the first year. After that, if you intend keeping the car for a long time I still recommend more frequent oil and filter changes than the manufacturers or their on-board service indicators suggest. It's also a good idea to have the transmission oil changed after the first year to get rid of any swarf which could later be ground up into tiny particles which eventually get into the bearings and accelerate wear. "
Yes Andy.....it's me :eek: ;)

This article says:
"An early oil change to fully synthetic can prevent this happening...."

This implies there was another product in the car, probably conventional oil.
I can't see how changing synthetic for synthetic will make a difference in break in. Unless, as asked above, there is some need for the metal particles ( and I can assure you they are there ) to assist in some part of the break in.
Unfortunately the article doesn't clarify this so once again this leaves this whole issue unclear.
I have faith that the oil is good for extended periods. That is what synth oils are all about. My only problem is what is IN the oil.
Unless that is clarified by a number of definitive sources we'll just debate this until we're blurry eyed and changing the oil in our wheelchairs.


FWIW. I did my first change at 1500. Now at 22K with some mild mods and it runs like a scalded dog. Burns zero oil.

Now here's the compromise.
Change the filter at break in From what I saw that will remove the vast majority of the crap from your oil and you won't be wasting resources, natural or otherwise.



So far this is the most gentlemanly oil thread I can remember :cool:

Then again.............I've been avoiding oil threads for a year or so


I wonder if there is a relationship there???? :confused:




NAH! :p
 

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Benny the Yellow Cab
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obehave said:
Now here's the compromise.
Change the filter at break in From what I saw that will remove the vast majority of the crap from your oil and you won't be wasting resources, natural or otherwise.



So far this is the most gentlemanly oil thread I can remember :cool:

Then again.............I've been avoiding oil threads for a year or so


I wonder if there is a relationship there???? :confused:

NAH! :p
Ok - that's a plan I could live with. As I said earlier...I am genetically unable to let my oil go 10K on break-in. However...a filter change would make me feel much better about suspended particles. But.....the difference between a filter change and a complete change in terms of cost and effort is so small that I'll still probably do the entire job at 2 or 3K

Peter... in Denver
 

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Peter Crowl said:
Ok - that's a plan I could live with. As I said earlier...I am genetically unable to let my oil go 10K on break-in. However...a filter change would make me feel much better about suspended particles. But.....the difference between a filter change and a complete change in terms of cost and effort is so small that I'll still probably do the entire job at 2 or 3K

Peter... in Denver
Same here.
I used to build engines back in the '70s and early '80s. It's ingrained now to change oil right after break in.
 

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There are multitudes of particles "liberated" very soon after an engine is first run. I don't want them swimming around in my engine. I'm changing my oil as soon as I get the car home, then again at 500, and once more at 1000 miles. After that, I'll change the oil every 3-4K. When the first "free" oil change comes up, I'll gladly let them do it.

I know that good quality synthetic doesn't wear out that quickly, and I know that engines must wear in, but those particles ain't anybody's friend.

Rawhyde
 

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MotorCityMadman
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Rawhyde said:
There are multitudes of particles "liberated" very soon after an engine is first run. I don't want them swimming around in my engine. I'm changing my oil as soon as I get the car home, then again at 500, and once more at 1000 miles. After that, I'll change the oil every 3-4K. When the first "free" oil change comes up, I'll gladly let them do it.

I know that good quality synthetic doesn't wear out that quickly, and I know that engines must wear in, but those particles ain't anybody's friend.

Rawhyde
As soon as you get home?! That's a little extreme, no?! :confused:
 

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Cooper76 said:
As soon as you get home?! That's a little extreme, no?! :confused:
I agree that it sounds overly extreme. I bought a really rare version of a Camaro in 1995 and was showing it to a friend the day I got it. He absolutely INSISTED that we change the oil RIGHT THEN. Just to make him happy, I went along with it. We used a new pan to catch the oil (again, my buddy insisted). After we drained it, we took the oil outside into the sunlight, and sure enough, it was full of tiny metal particles. It looked like glitter but smaller. Even smaller than the flakes in metallic paint, but they were there. At the 500 mile change, there were only a few particles, and I haven't seen them since(....and don't want to either!)

I am an engineer, and I have worked on cars all my life; and if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I'd have never believed it. Since then, potentially wasteful or not, I do an oil change as soon as I get the car home. It can't hurt and it makes me feel better.

Remember, cylinders are honed with a crosshatch pattern and piston rings are basically cast iron. Cast iron dust is highly abrasive. If there's chance that I can minimize the amount of this dust in engine, I gotta try.

Best wishes,

Rawhyde
 

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I took delivery of a brand new 2 litre petrol car (from another manufacturer) in 2002. It came with 20,000 mile service intervals with the first service due at 20,000 miles.

After about 8,000 miles it started to sound rough and at about 12,000 miles it got a lot worse really quickly. It needed two new cam shafts as the oil supply to the camshafts had apparently become clogged with something (possibly iron filings). The dealership fitted 2 new cams and, despite the fact that the cam lobes were now mixed in with the oil, they had to be persauded to change the oil as well :eek:

The new cams lasted for about 3,000 miles and the same thing happened again. At around 18,000 miles the second set failed and an entire new engine was fitted.

My previous car from the same manufacturer had 6,000 mile service intervals and I sold it with about 140,000 miles and it didn't use ANY oil from one service to the next and the oil even still pretty clear after each 6,000 miles. At about 140,000 miles It was just as smooth and quiet as they day that I originally got it.

WHAT A CONTRAST !!!

Stick to the extended service intervals if you wish, even run with the iron filings that inevitably result from the running in process. However, when it's my own money I've invested in my MINI, that oil will get changed no later than 1,500 miles and then again at 7,500 mile intervals. I just can't think of a cheaper way to make it last for 150-200,000 miles!

Tigger.
 

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Benny the Yellow Cab
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I was just listening to Car Talk on NPR. A caller had a BMW 7 series with about 77k miles on it. Smoking on start-up. The guys made referrence to BMW now doing oil changes for free as part of the purchase package because too many people were not changing the oil after the first change which had been the only one included. The problem was that people would lease a car...change it once for free...then when they found out what it cost to change it again they wouldn't do it.

Their certified used car program became plagued with cars that had motor problems due to lack of oil changes.


BTW.......Can I mix used synthetic with used regular oil in my collection unit and take it for recycling...or do I need to keep synthetic separate?

Peter..puzzled..in Denver
 

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Peter Crowl said:
I was just listening to Car Talk on NPR. A caller had a BMW 7 series with about 77k miles on it. Smoking on start-up. The guys made referrence to BMW now doing oil changes for free as part of the purchase package because too many people were not changing the oil after the first change which had been the only one included. The problem was that people would lease a car...change it once for free...then when they found out what it cost to change it again they wouldn't do it.

Their certified used car program became plagued with cars that had motor problems due to lack of oil changes.


BTW.......Can I mix used synthetic with used regular oil in my collection unit and take it for recycling...or do I need to keep synthetic separate?

Peter..puzzled..in Denver
MIx them. Believe me, by the time they turn it in it full of crap. many of the centers mix all oils together. Tranny, diff, crankcase all one big pool of it.
 

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a.k.a Handsome Rob
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obehave said:
MIx them. Believe me, by the time they turn it in it full of crap. many of the centers mix all oils together. Tranny, diff, crankcase all one big pool of it.
That is very true. The used oil we use in refrigeration compressors I take to the local Kragen Auto parts store to dump. It's free and no paper work or crap to fill out.
Tavis1 :red:
 
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