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Mini One 2012 (R56 N16 I think)
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am currently in the market for a Cooper S.

After much research it would seem the Cooper S form 2010 onwards with the N18 engine is the safest option.

My wife drives a Mini one which is seviced at a local mini specialist with a great reputation.
As it turns out the mechanic is selling a 2010 cooper S (64k miles) with a "new" N18 engine in it (circa 20,000 miles) and "everything else done".

Is this car worth the same as a 64k 2010 car with original engine (around £5k) or is it worth the same as a 2010 with original engine and 20k on the clock (around £7k). Or is it somewhere in between?

Never considered a car like this before so have no idea how it would affect the value.

Also, am I too old for a Cooper S at 53? First car was a mini 850.
I feel like a bit of a boy racer behind the wheel but its too much fun on the twisty bits and your only young once right?

Thoughts Gentlemen? and ladies of course.
 

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would either buy a car with a duff engine at duff engine money and rebuild it myself, or buy the car that had it done to it, as for price its still a 64k car looking around £1500 to refresh one of those engines buyers market at present think we are not anywhere near the worst of covid and brexit and all the dumb rubbish the uk governments have done ,, aftermath is yet to fully arrive ,
 

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2006 MINI COOPER S (R56) Petrol
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I am currently in the market for a Cooper S.

After much research it would seem the Cooper S form 2010 onwards with the N18 engine is the safest option.

My wife drives a Mini one which is seviced at a local mini specialist with a great reputation.
As it turns out the mechanic is selling a 2010 cooper S (64k miles) with a "new" N18 engine in it (circa 20,000 miles) and "everything else done".

Is this car worth the same as a 64k 2010 car with original engine (around £5k) or is it worth the same as a 2010 with original engine and 20k on the clock (around £7k). Or is it somewhere in between?

Never considered a car like this before so have no idea how it would affect the value.

Also, am I too old for a Cooper S at 53? First car was a mini 850.
I feel like a bit of a boy racer behind the wheel but its too much fun on the twisty bits and your only young once right?

Thoughts Gentlemen? and ladies of course.
Not sure I'd be keen on buying a car with an engine transplant but if it's been done properly then fair enough - presumably that would have to be declared to the insurance co., which might be a problem for some?
Personally I think that the earlier R56 models with an N14 engine gets an unnecessarily bad reputation - like any car, if you find a good one that has been well looked after/serviced then you should be fine.
 

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Mini One 2012 (R56 N16 I think)
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Not sure I'd be keen on buying a car with an engine transplant but if it's been done properly then fair enough - presumably that would have to be declared to the insurance co., which might be a problem for some?
Personally I think that the earlier R56 models with an N14 engine gets an unnecessarily bad reputation - like any car, if you find a good one that has been well looked after/serviced then you should be fine.
Thanks for your reply.
The Garage has a very good rep although I have only used them a couple of times. I also have misgivings over a transplanted engine.
As I understand it, it is the same engine going in as the original one, so is considered a repair not a modification so insurance dont need to be informed.

I also think the N14 is good if looked after.
Unfortunately well looked after ones are like hens teeth. I think it is because of the nature of the car. Looked after for first few years form new, then generally neglected thereafter.
I bought one last Saturday for £4600, 2009, N14, 67k miles, imaculate inside and out. Ran fine (was warmed up when I viewed/test drove). On starting cold on Sunday morning, obvious death rattle. Luckily I took it straight back (at < 2000 revs all the way) and got my money back no quibble.

I'm no mechanic/expert so I am thinking this might be a good option.
Just not sure what is a fair price.
 

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Mini One 2012 (R56 N16 I think)
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
would either buy a car with a duff engine at duff engine money and rebuild it myself, or buy the car that had it done to it, as for price its still a 64k car looking around £1500 to refresh one of those engines buyers market at present think we are not anywhere near the worst of covid and brexit and all the dumb rubbish the uk governments have done ,, aftermath is yet to fully arrive ,
Maybe 30 years ago I would consider working on my own cars, not these days, been too long, back too knackered.

So around £6500 for a 64k miles car with a professionally transplanted 20k engine is ballpark?

I agree, worst is yet to come from an economic standpoint. We WILL get through it though.
 

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two things, the N18 being better is generally shite imo, perhaps less coking up but plenty are smoking and having chain grief, there's all the same stuff to go wrong on them, actually more, another Vanos as well as Valvetronic, and they're more complex again, all there waiting to happen imo. The fact this has 64 and a new engine supports exactly that.

the car is technically worth a bit less as it now no longer has the original motor or it's number which I'd be surprised if was on the V5, if it isn't it should be,

curious, has the garage the good rep or the person selling the car?

I have two N14 56 S's for sale, an R60 SD All4, all of which have had motors rebuilt, one is on 27k and that one I chose to put a different motor in but still rebuilt, only because it was on stock sizes where the 27k one wouldn't be (re-bore), if someone wanted the original motor I can swap it but the price would be a few hundred more reflecting the piston purchase and it won't have the potential for a future re-bore, so it has a better motor now in my view.

the value is based on the miles the car shows really, your scenario or mine, it's not just the motor recording miles is it, it's box, suspension, brakes, body etc.

no you're not too old for an R53 haha, I'm 55 and have a couple, one with straight cut gears, 250whp, 8100rpm, grp seats, who cares 😂 (ok it is a bit daft)

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Maybe 30 years ago I would consider working on my own cars, not these days, been too long, back too knackered.

So around £6500 for a 64k miles car with a professionally transplanted 20k engine is ballpark?

I agree, worst is yet to come from an economic standpoint. We WILL get through it though.
i repair these cars fair bit work in a garage and have my own projects along the way, i have lost count the amount i have rebuilt over the years as same engine shared with psa cars as well, all end up same way due to timing chain stretched even the n18 is not free from this, difference between me saying no brainer buy the car thats had all that done after 64k as on engine with 20k 24 month service plans its more common than not ,,, i would put a bet on a 64000 miles prince engine having major issues within the next 40k being over 90% and 70% around 80k from a lot pf past repair jobs,, most common is timing chain bmw on n18 engines could of fixed this weakness by using a duplex chain, nope all they done was design a longer reach tensioner to kick the can up the road a bit to when it does snap ,, bi product of this is a engine now running retarded for further 20k with out the owner knowing as most drivers dont use all the rev band so would not feel the lack of top go,, the other things is vave stem seals fail crud the exhaust valves , bmw also in their no so clever design used plastic nitride oil control rings on the pistons these are ok for 80k maybe a tad more when oil is clean and there is no petrol wash blow past as running out of time causes and adds to the wear,
like I said before i have refreshed many of these engines and people who have had them done owned them for a number of years after and no issues , that said i think timing chains are 60k item ie must change them, engine oil 8k 12 months a must, buying a 70.000 miles any prince engine car its on barrowed time , difference to me and a owner saying ho no they get a bad rep is i deal with the failures would monthly at best some time daily , heads up most of damage to them was from when new and owners thoght they did not need to check oil levels to find after 3k oil light on and lack of oil and damage done,, THESE ENGINES MUST BE RUN ON FULL MARK ALL THE TIME AS WEAR OUT CHAIN AND CAMSHAFTS
 

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two things, the N18 being better is generally shite imo, perhaps less coking up but plenty are smoking and having chain grief, there's all the same stuff to go wrong on them, actually more, another Vanos as well as Valvetronic, and they're more complex again, all there waiting to happen imo. The fact this has 64 and a new engine supports exactly that.

the car is technically worth a bit less as it now no longer has the original motor or it's number which I'd be surprised if was on the V5, if it isn't it should be,

curious, has the garage the good rep or the person selling the car?

I have two N14 56 S's for sale, an R60 SD All4, all of which have had motors rebuilt, one is on 27k and that one I chose to put a different motor in but still rebuilt, only because it was on stock sizes where the 27k one wouldn't be (re-bore), if someone wanted the original motor I can swap it but the price would be a few hundred more reflecting the piston purchase and it won't have the potential for a future re-bore, so it has a better motor now in my view.

the value is based on the miles the car shows really, your scenario or mine, it's not just the motor recording miles is it, it's box, suspension, brakes, body etc.

no you're not too old for an R53 haha, I'm 55 and have a couple, one with straight cut gears, 250whp, 8100rpm, grp seats, who cares 😂 (ok it is a bit daft)

View attachment 281972
see for me if i were looking for a mini just to use i would all day go for what you do to them rebuild them as no nasty surprises and know what it costs and should go many years forward, lost count amount of upset mini and psa owners that all say same thing wish i had listened to you and bought the one that had been rebuilt,, trouble is AA and RAC buying websites that are based on under 4 year old cars tells people dont buy the repair rebuilt cars ,, that advice dont stand well with cars over 40k and 4 years as tend to be fairly worn out,
 

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Mini One 2012 (R56 N16 I think)
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for your advice gents.
I think on my budget and with my lack of expertise, this might be the best option. Your comments are reassuring.
Not rebuilt exactly but the next best thing?
Will ask for itemised list of everything he has done.
He has even replaced a damaged wheel arch liner, which is pretty thorough, so I'm pretty confident the rest of the work has been done properly.
Its local in case of any issues.

Test driving on Saturday. Will let you know how it goes.
 

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Thanks for your advice gents.
I think on my budget and with my lack of expertise, this might be the best option. Your comments are reassuring.
Not rebuilt exactly but the next best thing?
Will ask for itemised list of everything he has done.
He has even replaced a damaged wheel arch liner, which is pretty thorough, so I'm pretty confident the rest of the work has been done properly.
Its local in case of any issues.

Test driving on Saturday. Will let you know how it goes.
this year alone i have done 14 of these engines from 50,000 miles to 120.000 miles on a refresh level, ie aslong had good oil pressure and no oil related damage to the camshafts,, ie its called a engine refresh, head off all valves out all guides checked and new stem seals and repal the valve seats get rid of pitting as they all go, only ever skim head if it needs as can only skim these once , remove all pistons check bore for oval and very rarely do even on 120k tend to be ok, then its hone bores and put new better solid piston rings on pistons and replace the big end bearings only as crank not coming out, fit new timing chain full kit new head gasket etc, on turbo cars with over 80k on clock extra cost job fit turbo cartridge , also has all new stretch bolts etc, over the years done hundreds and all end well as long as good oil checking and lower oil changing in place going forward, i've seen these engines with 20k oil damage from idiots who are to stupid to maintain a oil level
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well lets hope this one goes to 120k before it needs a refresh Mike1967. Great year that, 1967 :)

What about suspension etc, that has all done 65k miles. Anything in particular I should look/listen out for?
 

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Well lets hope this one goes to 120k before it needs a refresh Mike1967. Great year that, 1967 :)

What about suspension etc, that has all done 65k miles. Anything in particular I should look/listen out for?
brake discs tend to be 70-80k on a driven correctly level, poss a lot less on a car that has been nailed from the off and find discs get grooved or thinned out, they say gearbox oil is sealed for life another really stupid idea from bmw and vag do same , 40k change the gearbox oil, brake fluid every 4 years, coolant is also worth thinking about as these engines run hot by design,, the cooper s needs high octane fuel to feel right, ie dont use the supermarket low grades , shell V-power petrol by far the best, reason by this is these engine run hot on borderline of leaning out so if use low fuels mores the lean points and causes knock and eml lights for it, they made a lot of cool things in 1967 lol wish i could go back and buy some of the cars from back then,
 

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will add must treat timing chains as a 60,000 miles service must replace item as they will sound find but will be running out of time and cause all kinds of combustion issues
 

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To answer your questions:

Value:
It's not worth the same as a 20k mile car because it's not a 20k mile car! The engine is just one component of a car and therefore despite having a new engine fitted it's still basically a 60k mile car for all other components (with associated wear and tear).
It's probably worth a little more and should be more desirable as the issues with older engines are well documented, and shared here by Mike.
If you're worried the engine swap has been done correctly, consider how much a car will have been worked on of it's age, can you worry about all of that too?

Insurance:
If it's a like for like replacement engine there is no insurance consideration, though it's wise to ensure the log book has the correct engine number on it and you are confident the new engine is not stolen!

Desirability and robustness:
The younger engine will buy more time before the major service and repair items need addressing, but it won't remove their liability, so you basically have more time to save for their cost.
As with the value, yes the car should be more desirable however some people, rightly or wrongly, would avoid such a car because they want everything original.

Conclusion:
All cars will go wrong, some more than others, if done correctly this one seems to be worth consideration above many with limited or no maintenance history or higher miles.
Oh, if you do buy it, don't feel obliged to mention the engine has been changed most people would never know!
 

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Mini One 2012 (R56 N16 I think)
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
To answer your questions:

Value:
It's not worth the same as a 20k mile car because it's not a 20k mile car! The engine is just one component of a car and therefore despite having a new engine fitted it's still basically a 60k mile car for all other components (with associated wear and tear).
It's probably worth a little more and should be more desirable as the issues with older engines are well documented, and shared here by Mike.
If you're worried the engine swap has been done correctly, consider how much a car will have been worked on of it's age, can you worry about all of that too?

Insurance:
If it's a like for like replacement engine there is no insurance consideration, though it's wise to ensure the log book has the correct engine number on it and you are confident the new engine is not stolen!

Desirability and robustness:
The younger engine will buy more time before the major service and repair items need addressing, but it won't remove their liability, so you basically have more time to save for their cost.
As with the value, yes the car should be more desirable however some people, rightly or wrongly, would avoid such a car because they want everything original.

Conclusion:
All cars will go wrong, some more than others, if done correctly this one seems to be worth consideration above many with limited or no maintenance history or higher miles.
Oh, if you do buy it, don't feel obliged to mention the engine has been changed most people would never know!
More sage advice. Thank you k3fus.

Very persuasive arguments.

Just wish I had known the garage longer than 4 weeks/1 service.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Little update.

Didnt end up buying the above vehicle. Turns out the garage was sold in January and glowing reviews were for previous owner.
Ended up getting this little beauty...
282008


2010 - 52k miles 1 owner. Looks and drives like new.
Picked her up on Saturday. Not missed a beat all weekend.

Thanks for all your advice gents. Much appreciated.

Let the fun begin.
 

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nice colour and and really right wheels as well good choice when comes to sell it again it will sell well, just keep every invoice for everything done and do the chain around 60k and no super market fuels, 8k oil changes a good move,
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
nice colour and and really right wheels as well good choice when comes to sell it again it will sell well, just keep every invoice for everything done and do the chain around 60k and no super market fuels, 8k oil changes a good move,
I hear you mike.
Any particular brand/weight of oil you recommend?
First oil change service already booked in just in case. Was 'serviced' by dealer but they might not have done the oil. Looks very dark on the dipstick.

Colour is eclipse grey metallic.
 
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