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Hi all,has anybody driven the 2 of these cars??in comparison what are they like aggainst each other??im expecting delivery of a new cooper s works in early jan however i never drove a mini let alone a cooper s works BUT i did drive the pug and i found it to be a bit kinda sluggish,you have to really work it and keep the revs up high.to be honoust i was'nt that impressed
 

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Although not back to back I have driven both - and you have made the right decision. I can't help but think you ought to go for a test drive though!

The 180 engine really needs to have plenty of miles on it before it becomes a quick motor, and altough it pulls with average strength it is know where near as strong as what your works s will be like. My standard s feels at least as strong as a 180, and it is not the revamped one either.

The 180 suffers from a very unresponsive suspension set up, the damping feels far to solid, giving the car very slow to react suspension over bumps, and a dull witted feeling.

Oh and the gearbox is rubbish as well, inconsistant throw lengths from ratio to ratio, and it wobbles about even when it is in gear.

The mags gave the car a pretty subdued reception.

I guess these opinions would not be that popular on a GTI 180 forum though!

Nev.
 

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Pug GTi180 is barely a match for the Cooper S never mind about the Cooper SWorks, I remember when the 180 first came out, every group test it was in (car mags) usually against Clio 172/182 Cooper S , Civic Type R, it came last. I briefly had a 206cc 138Bhp 2.0 (Gti) (the words ......... what was I doing? and bag of poo ....sprang to mind) - id rather have a Cooper. Flimsy ...dated ...not long before itsreplaced by the 207.
 

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Nev said:
...................... I can't help but think you ought to go for a test drive though!
I did the same thing and i loved the car the second i sat into. There was a 2nd hand one for sale in italy in a showroom but they wouldnt let me go for a test drive but i did manage to start it and i reved it up and heard the cracks and pops and i knew then that i had to get on the waiting list quick!!! One of the sales man came running over and was shouting at me to turn off the car cause the exhaust fumes had spread all over the garage and they where pretty strong. He wasnt too happy with me!!!!!!

Anyway you've made the right choice for the works. its a much better car than the peoguet.
 

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Don't know much about the Peugeot GTI 180, I had a 206CC 2.0 before I bought the MCS.

I went for the 206CC because it was a hardtop convertible. Never owned a convertible so I gave it a shot.
Also the hardtop was very nice. It worked without any troubles I owned it. Must say I quite liked it.. only in the last few months it started to show a lot of niggles and rattles. Maybe it's because I got the first ones... The ride itself was quite good after changing to some lower springs. In the corners it felt quite good. It seems like it just pivots at the center of the car (gear stick position). My partner sometimes complained about the bumpy rides. I had it for 3 years.

My new MCS is better build... and also more expensive. But it doesn't need a lot of modification to have fun with it. I only changed to non-rft tires and really light weight 16' rims. It has much better grip overal compared with the 206CC.

All and all the MCS is a better drivers car.
And for you, I think the Works will totally outg(r)un the GTI 180.

Just my opinion only... ( I will be killed in my old forum.. :D )
 

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While avoiding the traffic on the A30 i made an error in picking the A39 that was untill i picked up a Pug 180 oh how much fun can you have :) 10/15 miles of toying with him in the end the wife had enough of my antics so i let him past :(

It was no match in the twisties and i just pulled lenghts on him in the straights :D :D and all I have is a standard S with about 8000 miles on. So your Works will dorp em for dead

Happy Motoring
 

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Competitor car ..... MCS v Pug 180, no contest, the Pug is awful, feels lightweight, gear changes are imprecise, feel and handling woolly, engine sounds like a bag of spanners, trim is tacky and cheap, Same with Clio sport. Nothing quite comes close to MINI for all of the important bits of what a car that size and price should be. Yes I work for them, but I'm a car enthusiast and I do make serious efforts to try out the opposition, but I've yet to find anything quite as good. Commercial over :eek:
 

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the GTI 180 is faster than a standard S in a straight line, by some margin it has more power and weighs less. A clio 182 destroys them both though! The JCW S is a joke its no faster than a 182 and costs 8k more after it has been speced up, BMW are having a laugh
 

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I actually test drove them both twice.

The Pug felt much more powerful and faster, I'm personally a Pug fan and think it's a great little car, I very nearly bought the car after the first test drive. Having said that the S had much smoother and even power delivery, but the clincher for me was the Mini's smile factor, character, style and go-cart handling.

A colleague of mine has the Pug (he loves it) and I'm now waiting on deliver of a MCSC with have no regrets whatsoever.
 

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gazcaddy said:
the GTI 180 is faster than a standard S in a straight line, by some margin it has more power and weighs less. A clio 182 destroys them both though! The JCW S is a joke its no faster than a 182 and costs 8k more after it has been speced up, BMW are having a laugh
Gazcaddy - you've posted to this site 5 times now and EVERY post has been to extol the virtues of either or both the GTi 180 or the Clio over the MINI. Do you every get the feeling that you might be in the wrong place? Oh - and by the way you might want to check your facts before you dis the JCW S. At a supercharged 210bhp I kinda wonder if you've every driven one (particularly the 210 version).

Renault claims 0-60mph at 6.9sec for the Clio Cup 182. I guarantee that the 210bhp MCS JCW is faster than that (by about 0.5 seconds). But then speed isn't everything - and the MINI has many other compelling reasons to buy it over the Renault that go beyond the 0 60 time.

Dave
 

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Dave said:
Gazcaddy - you've posted to this site 5 times now and EVERY post has been to extol the virtues of either or both the GTi 180 or the Clio over the MINI. Do you every get the feeling that you might be in the wrong place? Oh - and by the way you might want to check your facts before you dis the JCW S. At a supercharged 210bhp I kinda wonder if you've every driven one (particularly the 210 version).

Renault claims 0-60mph at 6.9sec for the Clio Cup 182. I guarantee that the 210bhp MCS JCW is faster than that (by about 0.5 seconds). But then speed isn't everything - and the MINI has many other compelling reasons to buy it over the Renault that go beyond the 0 60 time. Dave
:cool: :cool: So true. However, Gazcaddy is only here to rile a few people and get a reaction, so let us just revel in the knowledge that we own a damn fine automobile, and pity Gazcaddy for the child that he is...
 

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gazcaddy said:
the GTI 180 is faster than a standard S in a straight line, by some margin it has more power and weighs less. A clio 182 destroys them both though! The JCW S is a joke its no faster than a 182 and costs 8k more after it has been speced up, BMW are having a laugh
Read this forum and you'll see the other side to owning a Clio.

http://forum.cliosport.net/display_forum_topics.asp?ForumID=2

Yes they may be quicker but the built quality is poor, they constantly break down and the dealerships not only rip you off come service time but their service is crap to boot. Add that to the fact that they'll depreciate by several thousands the second you drive off the forecourt and you start to get an idea of why the Mini is so popular.

As for the Pug 180GTi - it is a terrible car. Give me a Mini One over it anyday.
 

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LMB said:
Read this forum and you'll see the other side to owning a Clio.

http://forum.cliosport.net/display_forum_topics.asp?ForumID=2

Yes they may be quicker . . .
or not
From the official JCW website

MINI Cooper S
After 1 July 2004

MINI Cooper S
Max. output/hp/revs: 154 kW (210 hp) at 6950 rpm

Max. torque/revs: 245 Nm at 4500 rpm

Top speed: 230 km/h

Acceleration 0-100 km/h: 6.6 sec.


Acceleration 80-120 km/h,
4th / 5th / 6th gear: 5.4 / 6.7 / 8.9 sec.

Dave
 

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gazcaddy said:
the GTI 180 is faster than a standard S in a straight line, by some margin it has more power and weighs less. A clio 182 destroys them both though! The JCW S is a joke its no faster than a 182 and costs 8k more after it has been speced up, BMW are having a laugh
Sure we are having a laugh, along with around a half million MINI owners, now I never see Clio owners grinning and waving and flashing at each other, the Clio owners site is .................. Yawn, and when was the last time you saw 120 Cliohs' + (whats the collective term here ?) in a carpark with the owners/drivers/passengers having a great time.

The Clio - The facts

Look at it !, its French, its built of tin foil and cardboard, garlic and stale baguettes, the motor is tired and unreliable, residuals are rubbish, owners are mainly girls, and very girly girls at that, the Clios with small engines are a joke, the ones with bigger engines are a slightly better joke , and the driving pleasure is undefinable in that after 10 minutes behind the wheel you have forgotten why you got in the car in the first place.
Think of it as a Christmas Cracker, looks great on the table, you pull it and get a modicum of excitement, then on opening and examining the content you get ........... A paper hat, a bad joke and a plastic thing thats 2 seconds of fun before its forgotten and swept into the bin.
If thats BMW having a laugh, then laughter is the best possible medicine. :D
 

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Google Gazcaddy:

Member of the following groups -

Ford Fiesta Zetec-S Owners Club
Civic Type R Owners Forum
MINI2 Forums
cliosport forum

impressive stuff. :p
Dave

ps - I think he owns a Clio (poor guy)

http://forum.cliosport.net/display_...forum=2&searchSort=dateDESC&ReturnPage=Search

Message posted (to cliosport.net) by gazcaddy on 25 November 2004 at 6:14pm - IP Logged

gazcaddy said:
Hi all! Picked my 182 up today in arctic blue with both cup packs, must say Im chuffed to bits with it.

Also I know the dealers get a hammering on here, but I must say Reg Vardy Rotherham were excellent, the car came on time and everything was in the car e.g boot net, mats, cans of foam. I would highly reccommend them
If I recall in the UK you all call a "cup" a "box". I assume Gazcaddy decided he needed double protection for the next time he meets up with a JCW.
 

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Lets not get off the topic here, its about the 180 pug vs the JCW :)

I've driven the pug and didn't really think much of it to be honest. Sluggish, dull and...well...like any other medocure car they seem to get and bung a bigger engine in it.

The Mini I felt at the time handled better, had more feedback through the steering wheel and was definately quicker. Forget 0-60 times, being a forced induction car, its the mid range where it really kicks ass :)

Oh and a quick final point on the Clio (well I had to say something :p), the reason it costs £8000 less is because it doesn't match up to the quality of the Mini. The Clio is a budget car for budget people...period! If you can't afford a Mini and want speed, most go for the Clio.

I'm not saying its a bad car, but it can't be classed in the same league as the Mini as its like comparing Calvin Klein to a Poundsavers pair of jeans :)

The only arguement I ever seem to hear from Clio drivers when speaking about the Mini is that "oh it costs xxxx less. You could buy a Clio and pocket £8000 all for the same speed / performance". This is no different from someone buying a 2.0lr Nova, putting a turbo in it and saving thousands on buying a Clio. It would be much quicker and would cost a lot less...but then I hear you say "ah yeah but its a crappy Nova"...and then you see our point. Thats exactly what we see with the Clio :)
 

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ChrisBuer said:
Lets not get off the topic here, its about the 180 pug vs the JCW :)

I've driven the pug and didn't really think much of it to be honest. Sluggish, dull and...well...like any other medocure car they seem to get and bung a bigger engine in it.

The Mini I felt at the time handled better, had more feedback through the steering wheel and was definately quicker. Forget 0-60 times, being a forced induction car, its the mid range where it really kicks ass :)

Oh and a quick final point on the Clio (well I had to say something :p), the reason it costs £8000 less is because it doesn't match up to the quality of the Mini. The Clio is a budget car for budget people...period! If you can't afford a Mini and want speed, most go for the Clio.

I'm not saying its a bad car, but it can't be classed in the same league as the Mini as its like comparing Calvin Klein to a Poundsavers pair of jeans :)

The only arguement I ever seem to hear from Clio drivers when speaking about the Mini is that "oh it costs xxxx less. You could buy a Clio and pocket £8000 all for the same speed / performance". This is no different from someone buying a 2.0lr Nova, putting a turbo in it and saving thousands on buying a Clio. It would be much quicker and would cost a lot less...but then I hear you say "ah yeah but its a crappy Nova"...and then you see our point. Thats exactly what we see with the Clio :)
very well said Chris, my thoughts actually.......... ;)
 

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Not quite the same but...

I have driven a VR6 GTI and a Cooper S and the Cooper S was definately the better of the two. The GTI handled tightly and was well appointed inside (I really liked the moonroof control on a dial), but it didn't have quite the same get up and go as the Copper S or the same degree of positivity. The MCS has a better feel on the road. The biggest strike out for the GTI for me came in the middle of the test drive. The dealer was silly enough to turn me and a buddy loose with one on a wide open saturday afternoon. So my buddy drove it out and I drove it back, much of it on the highway where we could really open it up. We stopped on an overpass and switched seats and I had to wait to start back down the onramp. So I tear down this onramp in 1st and into 2nd and I'm going at least 50 mph. I clutch and push the shifter back forward into what should have been 3rd and it went into 1st instead. There's no excuse for that. I've driven wonderfully crappy cars that at least have the gearbox setup right to put you where you're trying to go. To it's credit though, the engine stayed together during that full-on redline engine brake.
 
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