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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, this may have been covered before, i tried the search but im not getting the hang of it straight off...

What exactly are the differences Price wise, Bodywork Wise and Engine wise, between a JCW and a JCW GP?

Thanks in advance ;)

(Ps Finding the forum really informative and helpful - cheers lads!)
 

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First off do you mean the old supercharged JCW or the new R56 MCS with JCW kit, or the coming soon factory JCW car?

As we can't describe the JCW car unless we know which one you are looking at;)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Its a 210bhp 05 JCW Works, I presume thats the old supercharged factory version! Sorry, i dont know much about them, hence the questions!
 

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main difference apart from the loads of spec differences is, the JCW was never factory and the GP was. Oh and the GP is a hell of alot more desirable
 

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Ok, so its the first gen JCW, just you've posted in the second gen forum;)

Main differences is that the GP has different bumpers, side skirts, 218bhp, different rear suspension, only 2 seats on the GP, lighter in weight, larger carbon rear spoiler etc

Basically, the GP was a special edition MINI, the fastest production MINI at its time, and the ultimate MINI. It was produced to be the complete package and it drives like it is, where as the standard JCW car although good was a conversion and compared to the GP it felt like an add on.

The GP will hold its value better and is the better of the two, I used to have a JCW and now have a GP;)
 

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main difference apart from the loads of spec differences is, the JCW was never factory and the GP was. Oh and the GP is a hell of alot more desirable
Incorrect.

The GP was never factory either, its was put together in Italy for a start;)

And the JCW kit was available as a factory fitted option;)
 

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Incorrect.

The GP was never factory either, its was put together in Italy for a start;)

And the JCW kit was available as a factory fitted option;)
Yes it was factory. The distinction between the two terminologies is that factory means it was built prior to getting to the dealer. Which the GP was, regardless of which factory it was.

As for JCW's being factory fitted, if it all any were, it would only have been the late ones, from my recollection all the JCW kits were fitted by dealers or JCW garages.
 

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At some point in time JCW was also factory build option - but I do not reall from when. So not all JCW are dealer / JC Garages conversions

GP is a factory car even if it was final assembley by Bertone in Italy.
 

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Yes it was factory. The distinction between the two terminologies is that factory means it was built prior to getting to the dealer. Which the GP was, regardless of which factory it was.

As for JCW's being factory fitted, if it all any were, it would only have been the late ones, from my recollection all the JCW kits were fitted by dealers or JCW garages.
Factory in my terms means it was assembled in the Oxford factory and the JCW did change into a factory fit car, but yet the first ones were dealer add ons.

GP was outsourced due to the factory not having the capacity and due to other contractual obligations to Bertone, but not put together in the MINI factory.
 

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My opinion for what its worth is go for the one you like the look of best and fits your lifestyle
day to day

Both are great cars and the GP is slightly faster and lighter although in the real driving world the difference will be marginal

I had a GP but sold it due to not being able to live with only two seats and to be frank wanted to
make my own car to my spec so now have the JCW.

Some love the GP styling and then again others dont.

You should be able to get the JCW 210 car for less than a GP and it seems that due to the fuel
price situation that quite a few are around.

As for long term value I personally think the differential will be relatively small as only a very few limited edition cars nowadays really every make it in terms of being a true collectable.

People are fickle now with short memories and move on quickly with new fads, new model role out etc.

I have heard it said before with cars like the Clio Wiliams etc etc

So to stop my waffling go and buy what looks and feels best to you and suits your every day needs. Both are great cars

regards

Antony
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Are you saying then that the JCW is essentially a cooper s with some extras added on at the dealers? I always thought it was the next step up from a cooper s in the mini range and was as different to a cooper s, as a cooper is to a one?

For comparsion, would it be similar to a 320se and a 320 sport in BMW's?

If you have a JCW car, does it say JCW on the log book?

There are loads of cooper s on autotrader that advertise that they are JCW but are just cooper s with bumpers added on, then there are more expensive cars that seem to be proper JCW... Im not really interested in the GP to buy so perhaps i should have asked what was the difference between a cooper s and a JCW. Sorry!

For clarity, In all cases im referring to second hand 04-05 models.

Also, sorry for posting this in the wrong forum, if it would have a better home elsewhere, please feel free to move it.
 

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OK being as we are talking 04 / 05 cars then ALL JCW will be Dealer fit kits with max BHP of 210.

basic difference over standard S
JCW Cylinder Head, JCW Map, 380CC injectors, 11 / 12% reduction supercharger pulley on new SC and JCW rear exhaust. The original dealer fit kit cost was circa £3000 - £3500
 

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As for the differences ...
A JCW MINI could come in two forms:
Early on, the JCW upgrade was added to an MCS by the dealership; later, you could factory order a JCW MCS that included extras like bigger brakes as well as the engine upgrade.
In both cases, a JCW is "just" an MCS with engine power increased - it can still be ordered in any color, with whatever packages are required by the buyer, etc.

The GP was a unique pre-packaged car; you could not specify anything - it was all pre-spec'ed (color, wheels, aero kit, etc).
The GP is based on a JCW MCS, with a few tweaks to get a little more out of the engine. But then they removed the back seats to save weight, added unique body kit including the CF rear spoiler, added unique 18" wheels - and of course the whole thing is painted in that fabulous Thunder Blue color.


If you just want a fast MINI, the new '07+ MCS JCW kit might be better for you - but if you want something very special, the GP is the way to go :)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks guys, so for revenue or official purposes (not insurance) ie the tax/log book, the car would be classed as a Mini Cooper S, or is there something that sets it apart recorded on there too?
 

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Thanks guys, so for revenue or official purposes (not insurance) ie the tax/log book, the car would be classed as a Mini Cooper S, or is there something that sets it apart recorded on there too?
If a dealer fit then Log book will be Cooper S
If factory order then the LOG book will probably be Cooper S JCW
For the GP Log book is Cooper S JCW GP

This is all driven by the COC (certificate of Conformity) that comes with the car from manufacture and will determine the tax band associated with the registration at DVLA
 

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I recently switched from a GP to a JCW. Wanted some money in the bank and life became a bit hard with no rear seats and avoiding speed bumps.

My opinion on the two cars is that the GP is without doubt the more special car. It's bespoke and has a number of features that simply can't be replicated easily, such as the seats, rear boot layout and colouring. This in my opinion makes it special. One thing i would pick out is i actually prefer the Aero kit on a standard MCS.

My JCW is an 05 and if i'm honest with the everyday performance...there isn't much in it between the JCW and a GP. Sure...if you hit the top end the GP will have more guts. The noise from the GP is also far more enjoyable. You'll notice slight performance lags in the hot weather with a stock JCW compared to the GP due to the smaller intercooler.

Handling is by far one of the big differences. My JCW does have the JCW brakes and LSD but no suspension kit. Although it's easier to live with where i live due to the speed bumps it simply flops around corners in comparison to the GP, which i'm sure could be tidied up with some JCW springs. The GP is by far one of the best handling cars i've ever driven.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
If a dealer fit then Log book will be Cooper S
If factory order then the LOG book will probably be Cooper S JCW
For the GP Log book is Cooper S JCW GP

This is all driven by the COC (certificate of Conformity) that comes with the car from manufacture and will determine the tax band associated with the registration at DVLA
Thanks Snowie, and my understanding is that they are only factory fit with the 2nd generation JCW, the 05 one would have been dealer fit, correct?
 

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Hmmm....

Well:

Early JCWs were a dealer (or JCW Works) add on consisting of revised cylinder-head, supercharger (smaller pulley and different vane coating), ECU map and cat-back exhaust. This produced 200bhp (up from 163);

Later JCWs were also a dealer (or JCW Works) add on, with the addition of a revised airbox, injectors and ecu map. This made 210 bhp (up from 170). In addition, JCW suspension and brakes could also be specified (the suspension makes a big difference to both ride and handling). The base car could also be specified with a LSD.

Late JCWs were factory produced and came with the revised brakes and suspension* as standard. They also made 210bhp, and could also be specified with an LSD.

JCW GPs were factory produced (in Italy, rather than the UK), and had revised bodywork and interior, plus alloy rear trailing arms (taken from the later R56 parts bin), a one-piece cat-back exhaust, a bigger intercooler, and an aerodynamic underfloor. They made 218bhp.

To further confuse things, prior to BMW giving approval of the early 200bhp Works kit, JCW Works produced 2 other Works tuning kits that they would fit ex factory:

The 225 (with a further revised supercharger, bigger injectors, an ecu remap, and tubular exhaust manifold that dispensed with the centre section of the exhaust in order to move the cat further back. It made 225 bhp.);
The 240 (as above, but with a new more heavily modified engine. It made 240 bhp).

Simple really... :)

*I'm willing to debate the suspension.
 

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Factory fitted S JCW cars first became available in Sept 2005 if I recall correctly, but you could still get the dealer fit option, you still can.

The GP was built as a special, but in Italy at the Bertone factory as stated before.

The standard JCW puts out an advertised 210 Bhp wheras the GP's are 218 bhp although irs probably nearer 220+ with the right fuel and atmospheric conditions.

As a drivers car theres a huge difference between a GP and an S with the works kit, hard to quantify in words but it just feels right.

Nobody mentioned the 18" wheels yet which I think make a big difference too, I changed to very light Pro Race 1's in 17" with conventional tyres instead of runflats for the winter and having changed back to the original wheels and runflats I'd have to say the car feels so much better for it.

As for the R56 JCW, well its passably quick and handles decently with all the JCW bits on, but its not anywhere near the GP in terms of looks or driver involvement. :eek:

Maybe in 2009 I'll have a look at something else , but for now my GP is unbeatable value , performance, looks and sheer pleasure to drive.
 
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