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Discussion Starter #1
ok, having a nice afternoon drive with a little open topped sports car(super 7) in front of me and i have the urge to test the power of MCS works !!

come upto a roundabout where i make a 90 degree left hand turn (roundabout has adverse camber) , i floors it round the roundabout and the rear end steps out big time, had me facing towards the kerb, luckily its easy to control and the car comes back straight !!

isnt dsc meant to stop me doing this ?? :D

p.s. im not a lunatic :D
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Paul Mullett said:
DSC etc are good, but cant defy the laws of physics!

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ahh yes, remember reading that in the manual :cool: !!
 

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Domestic Motor Pool Chief
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So how did the seven in front of you do in the roundabout?
 

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Did I get it right? You floored the throttle and the tail stepped out? How do you do that? As every FWD car my MCS always pulls straight and understeers vigorously when getting too much steam through a corner. Actually through tight corners like roundabouts I´ve never got anything else than understeer independent from what I do.

Klaus
 

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Discussion Starter #6
oldpaint1 said:
So how did the seven in front of you do in the roundabout?
ermmm it went straihgt round the rounabout like it was on rails ! :(
 

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KlausR said:
Did I get it right? You floored the throttle and the tail stepped out? How do you do that? As every FWD car my MCS always pulls straight and understeers vigorously when getting too much steam through a corner. Actually through tight corners like roundabouts I´ve never got anything else than understeer independent from what I do.

Klaus
yep, the rear end !!! thats wot i kinda thought, front wheel drive and me losing the back end (luckily im used to driving beemers so it was a natural reaction to bring it back online) I think the adverse camber of the roundabout had a lot to do with it but i certainly wasnt expecting to lose the back end.
 

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Had problems with my DSC in the damp weather over in the UK at the moment, ended up sliding across the middle lane as I came off a roundabout into the Motorway ... mine goes in tomorrow for the angle sensor thing to be sorted, hope this helps with what is IMO a totally crap system :rolleyes:
 

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can anyone tell me what the difference is between DSC & ASC? I know what they stand for but dont know what the difference is..I have ASC

Jason
 

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Burti said:
ok, having a nice afternoon drive with a little open topped sports car(super 7) in front of me and i have the urge to test the power of MCS works !!

come upto a roundabout where i make a 90 degree left hand turn (roundabout has adverse camber) , i floors it round the roundabout and the rear end steps out big time, had me facing towards the kerb, luckily its easy to control and the car comes back straight !!

isnt dsc meant to stop me doing this ?? :D

p.s. im not a lunatic :D
Haha, I had a very similar thing to this happen to me yesterday. And if it wasn't for DSC I'd have been made to look a right chump. But DSC saved the day and made it look like I knew exactly what I was doing ... sideways around a roundabout at about 60mph then just cruise off in a nice straight line. That's what I call lift off oversteer!

:eek: :( :D
 

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Babes said:
can anyone tell me what the difference is between DSC & ASC? I know what they stand for but dont know what the difference is..I have ASC

Jason
ASC is basically traction control only.

DSC is traction control, plus extra use of ABS sensors to apply the brakes to any wheel necessary in order to attempt saving the driver from a very scary moment.

Well, that's the simple explanation anyway.
 

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I got ripped off then, bloody sales rep told me I had the brake thing happening too! :mad:
 

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With the mention of the off camber corner.. i have to ask was ther also a crown in the road.

I also had the rear end unexpectantly step out on hard acceleration out of a corner with an off camber crown in the road. Since i have no DSC. I did a nice drift style slide coming out of the corner with the front tires smoking.

Also since my car is lowered and has quite a bit of camber in the rear. the moment the outside rear tire went over the crown there was no tire patch realling hitting the ground and the other tire took over forcing the car around. Its that physics thing in action.

Camber is when the top of the tires tilt in. /---\ . or is that Caster i keep getting them backwards.
 

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DSC can only help you in some situations. The DSC computer uses the steering sensor (to work out where you want to be going), an accelerometer (lateral in direction though) (this works out what the tyres/brakes need to be doing to transfer the forces of the turn from the tyres to the road) and a sensor that measures the car's rotation (e.g. is the car in a spin?).

The DSC computer tries to work out 3 things. One is what you want to do. Second is what's going on with the car at a particular moment in time. Third is how to act to get the car to do what you want it to do, while working with what the car is doing at that point in time.

As Paul said, DSC can't defy the laws of physics. There is only so much DSC can do to help you in a situation. Having said that, i'm sure DSC has saved quite a few people from getting injured or killed.

If you think the DSC is genuinely not working normally, then i'd recommend a visit to your local mini garage.

Camber is the curvature of the road :)
 

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I've got a Caterham (which is basically a seven) and the Mini. I'm suprised the Caterham went around like it was on rails and the Mini didn't.

I can do so much more in my Mini than I can in the Caterham. Sevens are very light, and have a lot of power over the back wheels. They are VERY easy to get the back end to step out, even in the dry!!

I'd check you're tyres etc cos it really shouldn't be doing that :(

In only slightly damp conditions, I have to really tread lightly in the Caterham whereas in the Mini, I can drive along much more comfortably without feeling the nerves twitches that comes from the rear end like the Caterham :)
 

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jbensley said:
DSC can only help you in some situations. The DSC computer uses the steering sensor (to work out where you want to be going), an accelerometer (lateral in direction though) (this works out what the tyres/brakes need to be doing to transfer the forces of the turn from the tyres to the road) and a sensor that measures the car's rotation (e.g. is the car in a spin?).
I've heard lots of stories about DSC being helpful for less experienced drivers in normal conditions. I've also heard stories about it causing problems in some situations. I haven't received my MINI yet - she's somewhere in mid-Atlantic at the moment - so I can't relate any direct experience. But I've heard of a common situation that sounds like it could really be a problem. You're pulling out of a driveway onto a very busy street with a high speed limit. You see an opening in the traffic and floor it as you pull out. Your inside wheel lifts and spins (normally, just a kind of fun, harmless event), and the DSC cuts your power. Ow! Not a good thing!

The original poster and another both mentioned that their cars had done this surprising motion (rear-end breaking loose) in reverse camber turns. I wonder if the lateral acclerometer mentioned above had something to do with it. It must be getting a very confusing signal going around a reverse camber turn! Think of the force vectors - normal turn, pointing down through the floor of the car; reverse camber turn, pointing out the window. (Does it think the car is starting to roll???)

Does the DSC modulate the power being applied (via the throttle) as well as the brakes, or does it just regulate the brakes? Either way, reducing power in a light, front-wheel drive car is the standard way of making the rear end come loose. (Ask any autocrosser.) I suspect the sensor mentioned above got confused and applied the wrong amount of braking and/or braking to the wrong corners.

I think the lesson here might be to be extra careful of reverse camber turns if you've got DSC!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
When i went out for a test drive in a MCS works at JC Garages, the first thing that Damon did was too switch off the DSC, he said by pure habit, every time he gets int he car he switches it off, purely as sometimes, if you give a bit too much throttle the car will cut power and leave you sitting at a standstill !! Have to say his 210 bhp works was fun to drive with it turned off and he was more than happy for me to put it through its paces !!
 

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LombardStreet said:
I've heard lots of stories about DSC being helpful for less experienced drivers in normal conditions. I've also heard stories about it causing problems in some situations. I haven't received my MINI yet - she's somewhere in mid-Atlantic at the moment - so I can't relate any direct experience. But I've heard of a common situation that sounds like it could really be a problem. You're pulling out of a driveway onto a very busy street with a high speed limit. You see an opening in the traffic and floor it as you pull out. Your inside wheel lifts and spins (normally, just a kind of fun, harmless event), and the DSC cuts your power. Ow! Not a good thing!

The original poster and another both mentioned that their cars had done this surprising motion (rear-end breaking loose) in reverse camber turns. I wonder if the lateral acclerometer mentioned above had something to do with it. It must be getting a very confusing signal going around a reverse camber turn! Think of the force vectors - normal turn, pointing down through the floor of the car; reverse camber turn, pointing out the window. (Does it think the car is starting to roll???)

Does the DSC modulate the power being applied (via the throttle) as well as the brakes, or does it just regulate the brakes? Either way, reducing power in a light, front-wheel drive car is the standard way of making the rear end come loose. (Ask any autocrosser.) I suspect the sensor mentioned above got confused and applied the wrong amount of braking and/or braking to the wrong corners.

I think the lesson here might be to be extra careful of reverse camber turns if you've got DSC!
I think Lombardstreet has got it right, the DSC tilt sensor is getting confused by the acceleration round the off-camber bend and it is killing too much power which any "old Mini" driver will tell you is the last thing you should do - and in many cases it is the last thing that you do :( as the resulting oversteer can become a full spin off into the scenery.
It sounds like DSC in this situation will CAUSE a spin. Luckily over here in the U.S., unless you are in Massachusetts or some villages in New York or Pennsylvania, there are very few roundabouts to have this problem on.
 

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LombardStreet, just to confirm, in my instance DSC deifintely saved me. I was expecting to spin and was pretty much a passenger. The roundabout I went through is not really a roundabout either, but a fairly open road that goes around a hill (see map below). My case was simply a matter of going into the corner too hot and getting lift off oversteer, all my fault. DSC caught my lose and saved my bacon.
 

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