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Discussion Starter #1
HI Guys,

I have a 2010 Camden and its been a naughty boy recently ! It started with burning a little oil, 500ml every 3 months. No visible leaks, no smoke.

Then we ran very low on oil for a few weeks and when i wen tto top up, I did a full oil change and filter at the same time. Still no visible leaks, but since then some blue smoke and higher consumption. It culminated in awful rough running and spark plugs soaked in oil which wasn't great ! Valve cover off, and the seal was perished, all hard and crap. Got the seal kit, cleaned up the plug wells, and changed the plugs. Good compression all round and after that it worked larvellllyyy for 3 months. That take us to now and he just failed the MOT on smoking and had low oil going in apparently (this was BS, i topped him up before i went but i went along with it as it was free to top up).

I think it may be valve stem seals, all makes sense but when I took off the valve cover to get started, I noticed the pictures. The seal was in there but would it be doing anything with the cover broken like that? If I dive in and do the seals, should I change that valve cover , so bite the bullet and just get one, and also a new PCV in the process. Or ..... do i get the valve cover only, get it on and see if it improves, saving muchos effort and cost ??

Whilst in the top of the engine, is it better to directly apply some sort of snake oil, rejuvinator to the valve stem seals ?

Running loads of oil through my exhaust will no doubt have filled it with crap ? Is seafoam or Cataclean a good shout for a clear out ?


Thanks in advance , sorry for long post !

P.P.S happy with my new phone camera too !


279857
 

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would want to know where the plastic that has crumbled has gone,, ie likely to be blocking the oil strainer on the oil pump, running low or out of oil does damage to them, including over heating valve stem seals as oil is also a coolant ,, burning blue smoke clear it needs a engine refresh only way forward link below might help you know whats involved
 

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2008 Mini Cooper S hatchback,Automatic,Mello Yellow
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When I put my valve stem seals on I had to make sure a couple of things. Number one if you getting a valve stem seal kit. Only get supertech if you are running supertech valves as they will not work with standard valves. Another thing when I put mine on is make sure not to use anything on the seals and to apply them with the plastic tool they give. To put them on dry. It's important. and in the memo.
Valve stem seals will mean that the head is gonna be pulled off. If that is the case you may want to go ahead and replace the piston rings as well. for 2 reasons. The oil wiper ring comes stock made out of composite material and not metal. Probably to save the cylinder bore not gonna lie. But they make plenty of piston ring kits these days for prince engines and having a metal substrate for a oil wiper is much better. I replaced my piston rings for Mahle piston rings.
Could not be happier it no longer burns oil of any kind. Of course now it is in real time. cylinder bore ovaling will be occuring in the next 100 thousand. but I bought one of these
001.JPG
And it made installation sooooo. Much easier plug and play.
It is a bear of a job. Lots of grinding to fit the main rings. new arp or stock bolts for the rod journals but that is about it. In that respect. Maybe a oil chain to go with that. But really the job can be done without removing the timing chain or having to put a new one in it or mess with the crank or cam gears. As with the removal of the head. Just mark the camshaft color coded against each link that sits on top of them. And drop the oil pan and mark the crank gear and chain link. Just remove the camshafts altogether. Heck you can even put in a new set of timing chain guides while your at it!
 

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cam shaft caps are numbered just take a photo of them for ref , use plenty of thick oil when rebuilding anything this includes the valve guise and stem seals,, if you do not on first start very likely to damage the new seals ie they wont last also if a valve jams up do to lack of oil when installing them you will end up with bent valves,, as for using them tubes better off using thick oil and wet and as push valve in past then stem seal rotate it gentle,, been doing them like this for past 35 years never had a issue,, however have seen on utube some peoples fails and lack of oil being a main one that bites them,,
 

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Did you have any bad symptoms like mine ??? Did it fix it ???? Cheers for replying 😊
A previous owner had done a bodge using 2 seals, there was oil in the well, but I was not aware of any performance issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Cheers for all replies, I think I will get a new cover and new stem seals whilst I have got the engine where it is and have time with the car. Likely not going to remove the head, will just do the stem seals with my airline in the cylinder and get at them from the top. Thanks for advice guys.

On a side note of sorts.... would a bad rocker cover like mine and possibly bad pcv (mine had been previously wrenched off and not put back very tidily) be the cause of the smoking or would they have just caused oil loss, overheating, stem seal failure etc etc etc vicious cycle. Thanks again
 

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Cheers for all replies, I think I will get a new cover and new stem seals whilst I have got the engine where it is and have time with the car. Likely not going to remove the head, will just do the stem seals with my airline in the cylinder and get at them from the top. Thanks for advice guys.

On a side note of sorts.... would a bad rocker cover like mine and possibly bad pcv (mine had been previously wrenched off and not put back very tidily) be the cause of the smoking or would they have just caused oil loss, overheating, stem seal failure etc etc etc vicious cycle. Thanks again
no stem seals are product of rubber heat and how clean oil has been and if ever run low on oil,, stretched timing chain and oil debris in cat causes heat build up adds to it ,, trouble by time its misfires its to late and the exhaust valve seats are pitted is common,, honest best method is pull it all apart put better piston rings in and clean and lap valves in done like this can get a good 60k until new chain again and good 100k 10 years on stem seals etc, i've been doing them like that for many years now and have got a name for my sell from garages who send me the problem child prince engine'd cars ,,, bare in mind when got chain off and all that stuff your only 3 hours a way from pulling it all part and do a do once and forget it job it that makes sense,, ie what i call a engine refresh,, a proper rebuild with re-bore and [pistons and crank etc is a massive job as engine out to sort the crank,, as long as car has good oil pressure and never been run dry of oil they refresh really well and fairly cheap as well using aftermarket kits off ebay
 

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2008 Mini Cooper S hatchback,Automatic,Mello Yellow
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I would just hoist the engine out. Sense it's so tiny. And just put the new piston rings and valve stem seals back in it.
In a perfect world the cost would be.
1.valve stem seals 40 dollars U.S. after shipping. (don't try for the expensive ones just stock valve stem seals.
2. Timing chain kit all together about 170 after shipping. Chain separate 99 dollars U.S.,Timing guides about 45 dollars a piece from the same store to bundle shipping about 170. Which is the way I went by time I was done. and another 70 dollars for the new gear and bolts.
New chain tensioner about 55 dollars U.S. The kit is cheaper. but the tensioner length is very important as is the chain.
3. Head gasket about 125 dollars U.S.
4. Head bolts a little over 200 dollars U.S. for ARP reusable bolts(which is what I have) or 90 dollars for stock bolts which is still a dang good option after shipping.
5. Piston rings about 120 dollars after shipping.
6. You can do new rod journals also for about 170 before shipping.
7. new oil,new air filter. about 100 dollars.
so the grand total is:
705 dollars U.S. That is without the rod journals and ARP Bolts or your choice of Chain Tensioner. Although if you know people and are willing to chance it I am sure there are good combo packs out there. I also deleted the 125 dollar mini genuine head gasket in exchange for a vanilla version at 75 dollars.
That is the cheapest way. The way I did it ran a little more around 1100 U.S.
None of this includes the special tools either. But the reason I wasted time to explain this is for about 2500 dollars you can be back in action without a problem. That is to cover any un expected charges of course. You may not have to replace your Catalytic convertor if you engine has new rings,seals, and timing chain. And I would not buy it if I did not need it. or until I have completed the job.
This is another reason why I like to mark my harmonic balancer after timing the car. Because as long as you know where you timing is at after timing the car. You can make sure that if a problem occurs it is not that.
either way 700 dollars U.S. is alluring. considering it rebuilds much of what a modern car needs. Plus it is a modern car. Meaning that it is very modular and simple to replace items. It was manufactured with tight tolerances so the idea you would have to send the cylinder head off to be re surfaced is a back burner idea. The idea that the cylinder bores themselves are out of round is not that probable. So that is too advantages. good cylinders bores for new piston rings and good straight head. NOT THAT IT IS PERFECT, but compared to what people would say about doing the cylinder head at a machinist and boring the block years ago, It is just not the same. Provided you just have around 100 thousand something miles.
So it is a legitimate 1000 dollars in parts and about 600 hundred in tools to include the timing kit the crank hub holder wrench, E series Socket set. 27mm wrench,22mm socket and a torque angle guage for your socket wrench.
*etc.
This is all provided you have a metric socket set and the variety of ratchets and socket style hand wrenches.
Total cost about 1600 hundred to repair what you have. 2500 hundred in the que just in case.

*meaning you might need little odds and ins.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hi guys,

Ok so the plot has substantially thickened,

After the smokey MOT, I stripped the valvetrain gear off, did the valve stem seals with the airline method, via a modified compression tester and all was good.

Got a lovely new FEBI chain kit, new tensioner and guides and some new stretchy bolts from MINI. Come today....

For the benefit of @mike1967 , I Did crank first, Locked it (both ways checked) torqued up, then hung off it as MINI recommend, put the chain tensioner tool in the hole and tightened it up, then did the ex vanos, then in vanos , span it 10 times at 22Nm then once it all lined up again, no effort to replace the timing tools and pin in the crank etc so went on to stretch the vanos/cam bolts. No probs there.

Span it loads, and all lined up again. Cleared the ecu, relearned the Vanos positions on the OBD tool, little whiz from under the bonnet and a confirmation message.

Put all the covers back together and started her up and she runs like a bag o sh*te. Misfire on cylinders 1 and 2 only, got spark and all coils run in all cylinders but cylinders 1 and 2 are black and sooty, 3 and 4 clean as a whistle....so confused now. Drove it round the block and it goes great but anything less than 1k rpm and it pops and splutters, hunts for idle, and sometimes just dies. I hate to say it but I also think there is a bit of suction on the exhaust (hinting at exhaust valve leaks). Only fault codes, 3001,3002 showing on diag tool.

Next stop is a compression test (was good before the work at 185 across the board) but if anyone has ideas between now and then i'm all ears. It has 91k ok it so could be carbon build up and I have disrupted some crap by doing the valve stem seals and now there's a leak ? Or does it need ragging up the road for 30 mins and some dynamic driving ?

Thanks in advance for help guys and gals

p.s anyone want to buy a Cooper Camden ..... I HATE THIS CAR !!
 

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cooper camden its the 1.6 vti engine non turbo i believe, so when you rebuilt the head and the followers for the vvt high lift did you put all of the spring fingers back correctly on to the upright camfollowers they have a square groove that must locate the tips of spring fingers,, on the inlet valves
 

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if any of those spring fingers slipped off and now push on the follower in wrong way they will miss like hell and sounds terrible once ecu switches the vvt on as such
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hi Mike, thanks for such a quick reply ! I did make sure everything was back in according to a very detailed rebuild guide but I will whip the cover off tomorrow and investigate. To be honest, I think they will be good but will update tomorrow.

I will try to get a compression test done also if I can.

cheers again
 

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would be worth doing a leak down test with compressed air in each cylinder have inlet and exhaust manifolds off and spray wd40 type oil in at rear of the valves look for bubbles dont take much of a leak to cause a load of issues
 

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Discussion Starter #17
So a quick compression test and we have 195 across the board. Didn't have time to take the top cover off tonight but tomorrow will connect the compressor to each cylinder and listen for leaks and also for the 100th time, check the timing!!

A little update and there is a small change to engine note when (NS is Cyl 1, car is rhd) I remove Cyl 1 coil, nothing changes on Cyl 2, but 3 and 4 cause it to stumble and stop. It's running on 2, maybe 2.5 cylinders. Makes sense I guess! :(
 

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So a quick compression test and we have 195 across the board. Didn't have time to take the top cover off tonight but tomorrow will connect the compressor to each cylinder and listen for leaks and also for the 100th time, check the timing!!

A little update and there is a small change to engine note when (NS is Cyl 1, car is rhd) I remove Cyl 1 coil, nothing changes on Cyl 2, but 3 and 4 cause it to stumble and stop. It's running on 2, maybe 2.5 cylinders. Makes sense I guess! :(
tend to find when have a weak cylinder when pull a healthy one out of circuit they stall or have a bigger reaction to it,
 
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Discussion Starter #19
So I whipped off the cam gear and pressurised the cylinders 1 by 1. 1 and 2 had minor leaks at 90psi of air so I had a little inspection around all the cam gear and lifters etc and rockers (there's so many!!) I found one of the intermediate lifters had taken a hit somehow and thrown the folded little arms (that wrap around the silver top roller piece) in to the engine somewhere!

I immediately found half of it, and the other half is hopefully in the bottom of the sump and retrievable/magnetised to the sump plug.

Then being a massive Tw*t, I removed the spring cap on the Leakey valve and tried to move it around a bit, knocking theup spring cap into the oil gallery !! Doh. Couldn't fish it with my magnet so I'll drop the oil and fish it from below. Fingers crossed.

Then .....

I pulled out the hydraulic lifters and 5 in 8 exhaust ones were seized solid and 3 were nice and squishy. They are all soaking in thinners until tomorrow but again... More money for this evil little car!! (I assume they are toast?? Change them all??)

Pressured up the pistons again and still leaking so Henry the 8thd it and took her head off.

Nothing untoward inside, new gasket and bolts on order.

Any thoughts, ideas then let me know please. Another POV is always appreciated.

Next up will be to clean it all up, fish the spring cap out, fit it all together again and install a new intermediate arm and a set of lifters.

Have I missed anything??
 

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So I whipped off the cam gear and pressurised the cylinders 1 by 1. 1 and 2 had minor leaks at 90psi of air so I had a little inspection around all the cam gear and lifters etc and rockers (there's so many!!) I found one of the intermediate lifters had taken a hit somehow and thrown the folded little arms (that wrap around the silver top roller piece) in to the engine somewhere!

I immediately found half of it, and the other half is hopefully in the bottom of the sump and retrievable/magnetised to the sump plug.

Then being a massive Tw*t, I removed the spring cap on the Leakey valve and tried to move it around a bit, knocking theup spring cap into the oil gallery !! Doh. Couldn't fish it with my magnet so I'll drop the oil and fish it from below. Fingers crossed.

Then .....

I pulled out the hydraulic lifters and 5 in 8 exhaust ones were seized solid and 3 were nice and squishy. They are all soaking in thinners until tomorrow but again... More money for this evil little car!! (I assume they are toast?? Change them all??)

Pressured up the pistons again and still leaking so Henry the 8thd it and took her head off.

Nothing untoward inside, new gasket and bolts on order.

Any thoughts, ideas then let me know please. Another POV is always appreciated.

Next up will be to clean it all up, fish the spring cap out, fit it all together again and install a new intermediate arm and a set of lifters.

Have I missed anything??
as i thought would be the case,, today i took a citreon that has same prince engine as yours for mot,, it went for mot 6 months ago and hc was over 100 and smoked and CO was meant to be no more than 1.2 it was 20.1 hmm so really bad,, after i pulled head and sump and all pistons honed the bores got rid of the stupid bmw single piece oil rings and fitted better 3 pieces pull all valves cleaned all reground seats etc fitted new cat and 02 sensors,, it went through today hc was 0.1 CO was 0.2 even mot guy said bloody hell mate these never go through that low,,,
so to do job ring pull piston hone the bore rering it and strip sort head etc honest mate it turns them all in to good runners again i've done so many like this and all have ended well even worth doing bog bearings as well ,,also do timing chain kit as well is a must,
i've used this kit a lot been ok for money based on price
 
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