[JUZ]

HELP!!!

How do I get the great power of the Cooper S onto the road!!!

At present... I have a standard 163 BHP Cooper S.

(Previous I owned a Honda Civic Type R!)

With ACS on, there seems little chance of not getting ignition cutout with full throttle acceleration in first/second. And with it turned off, (as I now tend to have most of the time due to power cut-outs at the least opportune moments!), wheelspin is common!

And this is in the dry! When the road is wet, I really need to feather the throttle lots!

I have 17 inch Dunlop Run Flats.

Any ideas? Different tyres?, Suspension mods?, Chip mods?

(The CTR never seemed to have this problem... even with 200 BHP!... and I am planning to modify my Cooper S for more power... not much use if I cannot get it to the road eh!)

There must be a way to solve this problem.

Thanks!

Pete.

 

[Hammer]

Unfortunately I can't help you, yet. I'm not yet past the break in period and I've been behaving. With 17's on there you should be having less wheel spin problem than someone with a smaller tire. Is your air pressure too high? Or is there just too much lead in your foot?

 

[obehave]

Throttle control.
Not having an LSD doesn't help.

 

[Wobert]

HELP!!!

How do I get the great power of the Cooper S onto the road!!!

At present... I have a standard 163 BHP Cooper S.

(Previous I owned a Honda Civic Type R!)

With ACS on, there seems little chance of not getting ignition cutout with full throttle acceleration in first/second. And with it turned off, (as I now tend to have most of the time due to power cut-outs at the least opportune moments!), wheelspin is common!

And this is in the dry! When the road is wet, I really need to feather the throttle lots!

I have 17 inch Dunlop Run Flats.

Any ideas? Different tyres?, Suspension mods?, Chip mods?

(The CTR never seemed to have this problem... even with 200 BHP!... and I am planning to modify my Cooper S for more power... not much use if I cannot get it to the road eh!)

There must be a way to solve this problem.

Thanks!

Pete.

I have the same car as you.......I commute 80 miles each way to work 3 times per week.

I very rarely get the ASC light blinking at me........perhaps it's you driving style???

 

[lukebuzzy]

If you floor it in 1st and 2nd you'll always get the wheels spinning.

 

[Mugami]

like Obehave said Thottle control.. Also replacing the rubber bushings up front with Urethene will increase traction alot. The stock rubber set up allows to much movement of the front end under load which allows the wheels to break traction and spin.

 

[JUZ]

Throttle control!

Hey all!

Ta for your replies...

BUT...

There are several 200 + BHP FWD cars out there where it is indeed VERY possible to apply full throttle in 1st and 2nd without wheel spin, or traction control cutout.

(I previously owned a Civic Type R. This has 200 BHP and NO traction control!!, yet full throttle application from 10-20 mph out of corners etc produced no wheelspin in either 1st or 2nd... just very usable power and acceleration!)

These forums are filled with discussions and ads re: more power! Yet what use is more BHP and Torque if it is un-usable!

Feathering the throttle to avoid wheelspin (there is VERY good feedback indeed with the ACS off, and this does allow this to be done accurately!) is what I am having to do frequently. Yes, perhaps Poly bushes are a great idea. Just a bit dissapointed all this lovely power is not usable!

So, how do the big BHP conversions of 220-250 BHP ever stand a chance?

Yes, I drive my Cooper S hard. But that is why I bought it and is surely what it is designed to do! I love the handling... the lift off oversteer is very similar to the original Cooper S! Just so want to be able to 'get the power down'!!!

 

[swamos]

I don't seem to have a problem with mine Don't forget to check your tyre pressures too - I run around 36 in the front. If they have significanty more or less than this you may be loosing grip

 

[NTHUSIAST]

Don't forget your toque

JUZ,

We have to remember there are several more variables at work here than just max horsepower.

The big differences between the Civic R and the MCS is WHEN the horsepower and torque come on. Due to the supercharged engine on the MCS, we achieve much higher torque numbers with much lower revs. We also hit peak hp output much lower in the rev count. Many would argue that this approach provides much more "usable power."

Honda (originally a motorcycle focused company), achieves large power from small, naturally aspirated 4-cylinder engines. They achieve max horsepower and torque output at much higher revs than our MCS's are capable of. The Honda S200 redlines ABOVE 8,000! Very few car companies can build production cars capable of handling near F1 revs without having catastrophic engine problems. Honda does this while maintaining a reputation of "cars that go forever." Truly an amazing accomplishment.

My last car was a 1998 Integra GSR, so I'm familiar with what you're talking about. We just need to keep in mind that a naturally aspirated V-TEC Honda is a completely different type of power, that requires a completely different approach in order to maximize performance. As I used to tell people about my Integra, "She's a whole lotta fun as long as you stir the pot enough to keep her boilin'!"

Like any true performance car, you can only extract every ounce of performance when you perfect your driving technique. It takes practice and discipline. I mean, let's be honest. Would we really want a car than any moron can drive to the fullest? Porschefiles the world over are still upset at how easy it's becoming to drive a 911 Turbo quickly. It used to be half the fun was in the difficulty in keeping the car moving briskly while keeping the back end behind you. Now with 4WD, auto stick and stability control . . . . .

Just my two cents.

NTHUSIAST

 

[Paul]

Nice post NTHUSIAST, makes a lot of sense too.

Vtecs are fun, but very hard to stay at "sensible" speeds and be in the fun zone. Not good for safety or keeping a licence I'd imagine!

 

[RedUn]

Hey all!

Ta for your replies...

BUT...

There are several 200 + BHP FWD cars out there where it is indeed VERY possible to apply full throttle in 1st and 2nd without wheel spin, or traction control cutout.

(I previously owned a Civic Type R. This has 200 BHP and NO traction control!!, yet full throttle application from 10-20 mph out of corners etc produced no wheelspin in either 1st or 2nd... just very usable power and acceleration!)

These forums are filled with discussions and ads re: more power! Yet what use is more BHP and Torque if it is un-usable!

Feathering the throttle to avoid wheelspin (there is VERY good feedback indeed with the ACS off, and this does allow this to be done accurately!) is what I am having to do frequently. Yes, perhaps Poly bushes are a great idea. Just a bit dissapointed all this lovely power is not usable!

So, how do the big BHP conversions of 220-250 BHP ever stand a chance?

Yes, I drive my Cooper S hard. But that is why I bought it and is surely what it is designed to do! I love the handling... the lift off oversteer is very similar to the original Cooper S! Just so want to be able to 'get the power down'!!!

as said before it's the torque!

the S has a lot more torque than an R!

also get shut of the run flats and u will see a big improvement in grip

 

[speedynz]

Juz,
I understand your frustration although my own experiences differ from yours.

I'm constantly amazed at not only the traction but also the absence of torque steer out of first gear hairpins. Wet or dry, it doesn't seem to matter.

New Zealand roads are very coarsely surfaced with volcanic chip which could explain the disparity. I, like you also run Dunlop runflats.

I concur with your thoughts regarding your previous cars ability to lay it's power down in lower gears and don't agree with the argument that a Civic Type R only manages to do this due to a 'comparitive' lack of torque developed higher up the rev range

Yes the Mini has more torque, although only 11lbs of it and yes it swells and peaks earlier in the rev range but their torque/weight ratios (an important factor) are very similar. There is no escaping the fact however, that when a Type R climbs on cam that it is putting much greater forces through the front wheels than a Cooper S, 197bhp of force in fact, hence it's far superior performance figures.

A Cooper S isn't exactly the last word in electric throttle response either, the softening effects of supercharging to an engines reaction see to that, though to nothing like the same degree as turbocharging a supercharger still needs, despite being constantly driven, to 'spool' up in order to deliver full boost.

Power delivery and the ability to transfer it is one of the great challenges to an engineer. Myriad technical adjustments can make or break a cars ability to not only find grip but to do it in an enjoyable and controllable fashion.

I remember when 100bhp would corrupt the front wheels, nowadays twice that figure ( and beyond) is becoming the norm.

As to why your particular car suffers from so much wheelspin is, I'm afraid to say Juz, beyond me.

I assume therefore that this post has been no help at all!

 

[JUZ]

Great reply NTHUSIAST,

And Cheers Paul,

And yes I know exactly where you are coming from re Torque/Power curves etc.

And what you put forward is very logical! It is nice to knowt hat you realise what I am on about too. And overall, whilst I love the sound of a Honda Vtec on full song at 9000 RPM, it is not very usable at times, and at this RPM, licence losing is...

Overall, I DO much prefer my Cooper S as a drivers car!

Just hoped there was a way to get the power down a bit more cleanly. I will play around a bit more with tyre pressures. I do however know that whenever I am enjoying my favorite B road, the the ACS will be off, and the finer art of feathering the throttle will be employed. There is very good feedback through the wheel for this, as I am sure you will agree!

On a related note, what 17 inch 'Run Flat' do we feel offers the best performance. I have Dunlops on mine, but I note Pirelli also supply to the factory. How about High end Brigstone or Goodyear?

Cheers guys,

JUZ.

 

[MukiMunki]

I'm having similar problems

I even had the traction control kick in a second time in 2nd gear as I passed 45MPH the other night.

Admittedly this was on an incline with a greasy surface, but I was a little surprised.

 

[Shockwave_Factory]

Hey all!

Ta for your replies...

BUT...

There are several 200 + BHP FWD cars out there where it is indeed VERY possible to apply full throttle in 1st and 2nd without wheel spin, or traction control cutout.

(I previously owned a Civic Type R. This has 200 BHP and NO traction control!!, yet full throttle application from 10-20 mph out of corners etc produced no wheelspin in either 1st or 2nd... just very usable power and acceleration!)

These forums are filled with discussions and ads re: more power! Yet what use is more BHP and Torque if it is un-usable!

Feathering the throttle to avoid wheelspin (there is VERY good feedback indeed with the ACS off, and this does allow this to be done accurately!) is what I am having to do frequently. Yes, perhaps Poly bushes are a great idea. Just a bit dissapointed all this lovely power is not usable!

So, how do the big BHP conversions of 220-250 BHP ever stand a chance?

Yes, I drive my Cooper S hard. But that is why I bought it and is surely what it is designed to do! I love the handling... the lift off oversteer is very similar to the original Cooper S! Just so want to be able to 'get the power down'!!!

Well my mate has just brought a type R and he can't believe how much wheel spin he gets, at all speeds!
So you must have a very different driving style, that i think you might have to change alittle to get the S driving how you want it. I totally understand about driving the car hard, it is what it was built for. I have heard many things about run flat tyre's and as soon as mine need changing then i will switch to normal tyre's!!!

 

[MukiMunki]

My dealer went a bit ballistic when I said I was gonna dump the runflats once the tread was a bit down

 

[speedynz]

Great reply NTHUSIAST,

And Cheers Paul,

And yes I know exactly where you are coming from re Torque/Power curves etc.

And what you put forward is very logical! It is nice to knowt hat you realise what I am on about too. And overall, whilst I love the sound of a Honda Vtec on full song at 9000 RPM, it is not very usable at times, and at this RPM, licence losing is...

Overall, I DO much prefer my Cooper S as a drivers car!

Just hoped there was a way to get the power down a bit more cleanly. I will play around a bit more with tyre pressures. I do however know that whenever I am enjoying my favorite B road, the the ACS will be off, and the finer art of feathering the throttle will be employed. There is very good feedback through the wheel for this, as I am sure you will agree!

On a related note, what 17 inch 'Run Flat' do we feel offers the best performance. I have Dunlops on mine, but I note Pirelli also supply to the factory. How about High end Brigstone or Goodyear?

Cheers guys,

JUZ.

Juz, given that you run 17's I would recommend a change to Pirelli P Zero Rossos (must be N4's), After much searching I don't believe there is a better tyre available on the market. This will NOT be a runflat however and if you want to remain with runflats the choice is limited and ultimate dynamics, be it traction, ride or handling will be compromised. The change from runflats to these Pirellis would offer probably the greatest improvement in driveability of any chassis based modification.

 

[Shockwave_Factory]

My dealer went a bit ballistic when I said I was gonna dump the runflats once the tread was a bit down

Yeah i told my dealer that, but at the time i was looking at trading my Cooper for an S, and was told that they wont take my Cooper unless it had runflats, and they would order them and take it off of the trade in amount, and i think they were about £50-100 more then any other tyre place!

I can't wait to get rid of mine, because i have noticed that in my S if i stick my foot down from a stand still my little yellow light flash's alot! And it makes you look like you can't drive the car, so i have had to change my driving style alot just so i can get going.

But i have to say that out of the runflats i like the Pirelli more then any other!

How much are the Pirelli P Zero Rossos going to set me back??

 

[Wobert]

The Bridgestone S03 Pole Positions get a good write up.......for me on 16" wheels the 205/50 are the nearest size, that doesn't screw the speedo up.......not sure on 17" wheels......will have a look...

Edit: You have to go to 215/40 to get the Bridgestones...£100 each from mytyres.co.uk

Hope this is of use!

Robert

 

[speedynz]

Yeah i told my dealer that, but at the time i was looking at trading my Cooper for an S, and was told that they wont take my Cooper unless it had runflats, and they would order them and take it off of the trade in amount, and i think they were about £50-100 more then any other tyre place!

I can't wait to get rid of mine, because i have noticed that in my S if i stick my foot down from a stand still my little yellow light flash's alot! And it makes you look like you can't drive the car, so i have had to change my driving style alot just so i can get going.

But i have to say that out of the runflats i like the Pirelli more then any other!

How much are the Pirelli P Zero Rossos going to set me back??

An arm and most of a leg!