MINI Cooper Forum banner
1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
JCW 235 bhp
Joined
·
141 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Guys

Need some help please !

What is the advantage of adding an intercooler to our jcw 235bhp Mini ?

Cheers
 

·
THE STICK
Joined
·
3,902 Posts
There are 2 reasons for bigger (or should I say better) intercoolers.

1. Power
2. Safety

1. The larger the intercooler (as long as you maintain a decent level of boost pressure accross it) the more fins and the more air hits it. The more air that hits it the more it cools the heated and compressed (supercharged) air inside. Colder air basically = more power.

2. The colder the air going into the cylinder the safer it is for the engine. This is because it helps keep the heat build up in the engine down and so reduces risk of damage occuring.

If you get the right IC you can improve flow, heat exchange and therefore power and improve the durability of your engine. However in terms of power there is not a huge difference between the various options out there. I have seen only slight differences between the JCW GP IC (I have this) and the GRS. That also said I have seen close results between the GRS and the GTT. Each has its optimum perfomance zone. The GTT is massive and does not like sitting still, but due to its size once you get some forward movement it cools down very fast at high speeds. The JCW is good but again suffers from heat issues when sitting still but this time its not because of heat soak its because once your moving it takes a bit longer to cool back down as its small. The GRS is a good comprimise. Personally for the road I'd choose a GRS if I had the cash, but at £200 the GP is a good option. For the track I'd defo consider the GTT as foward speeds are higher and there is not much sitting in traffic on the track ;) :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: JCW225

·
MMC Member
Joined
·
14,017 Posts
Actually I think that there were some tests that showed the stock intercooler as being fit for the job. The larger intercooler can do a few things as mentioned but this is the gist of it...

Heat is your enemy and boost is lost as hot air is less dense thus you cannot cram as much into the SC. Colder air will allow more air to be stuffed in giving you more boost. The larger intercoolers out there will help dissipate that heat for more boost. That being said they do it at a loss of flow. A larger core means that more air has to be pumped to maintain pressure.

OK, so what most of these folks have done is found a reasonable size and made sure that they maintain a decent pressure while still giving you a bigger area to reduce heat.

Does this apply to you?

Well, not really. On a stock car you are not making enough heat to warrant a larger intercooler and unless you are running at WOT will probably not see a loss in boost as your heat will not rise to a level that will show loss. If you reduce your pulley to say a 17% then I might recommend a larger intercooler but for now, stock should be fine.
 

·
JCW 235 bhp
Joined
·
141 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
There are 2 reasons for bigger (or should I say better) intercoolers.

1. Power
2. Safety

1. The larger the intercooler (as long as you maintain a decent level of boost pressure accross it) the more fins and the more air hits it. The more air that hits it the more it cools the heated and compressed (supercharged) air inside. Colder air basically = more power.

2. The colder the air going into the cylinder the safer it is for the engine. This is because it helps keep the heat build up in the engine down and so reduces risk of damage occuring.

If you get the right IC you can improve flow, heat exchange and therefore power and improve the durability of your engine. However in terms of power there is not a huge difference between the various options out there. I have seen only slight differences between the JCW GP IC (I have this) and the GRS. That also said I have seen close results between the GRS and the GTT. Each has its optimum perfomance zone. The GTT is massive and does not like sitting still, but due to its size once you get some forward movement it cools down very fast at high speeds. The JCW is good but again suffers from heat issues when sitting still but this time its not because of heat soak its because once your moving it takes a bit longer to cool back down as its small. The GRS is a good comprimise. Personally for the road I'd choose a GRS if I had the cash, but at £200 the GP is a good option. For the track I'd defo consider the GTT as foward speeds are higher and there is not much sitting in traffic on the track ;) :D
Thanks Richard for the reply.
Good info there ! Many thanks for taking the time to reply.
Cheers
:D
 

·
THE STICK
Joined
·
3,902 Posts
Oh DaFlake has a point about on a stock to stockish car but as you seem to have a JCW225 kit, which is not standard and does not have the same charicteristics as even a JCW210 never mind a stock car, I'd advice at least getting a GP IC or if you have the cash then opt for a GRS/GTT ... only thing i will say is Avoid the Alta and M7 front intake ICs they have had some bad press (not sure yet if its warranted but even so i'd be tempted to stick with the proven ones) . The GTT has been proven by several folks including ThinkMINI when they tracked a 17% pulley and 3% crank safely and without incident at bedford, they used a GTT IC that day to ensure temps were kept down and it worked well. The GRS has seen proven drag strip and rolling road results, and Jaw (Ithink) and I have seen great results with a GP unit on high power output cars
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
460 Posts
The GRS is an amazing bit of kit, and cheep for such a well made i/c we have an offer of free shipping with any GRS bought from our online shop (this is the only I/C I sell theres others out there that i could make more money off but the GRS is the best hands down Air to Air IC for the R53)
 

·
JCW 250
Joined
·
1,124 Posts
The GRS is an amazing bit of kit, and cheep for such a well made i/c we have an offer of free shipping with any GRS bought from our online shop (this is the only I/C I sell theres others out there that i could make more money off but the GRS is the best hands down Air to Air IC for the R53)
If I hadnt already got a GP IC on mine then I would have got a GRS - all the people I trust who advise me on my car point in that direction when discussing IC's - with the above offer that just helps things along for you :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
The stock intercooler is fine there is no need to upgrade it, I would spend your money elsewhere.
If you want to keep your IAT's down get a water/methanol injection kit.
You will have then have the advantage of both more hp and cooling....
 

·
THE STICK
Joined
·
3,902 Posts
I'd disagree on a tuned car an upgrade of the IC is a nessesity IMO. having seen horrendous summer IATs and felt the heat on the post IC horn in UK bvefore my change I can say that on a tuned S the stock IC really struggles to give you cool air for either power or engine safety. The GP IC is very good for the cash and I saw huge measured and but dyno differences in the cooling of the charged air.

The GRS and GTT ones are even better, but I have seen little difference between them and the GP in terms of real world ability to cool the charged air...they are a fraction better but not hugley (only really shows on the track and the drag strip). however the stock is way out done by the GP, GRS and GTT options.

IMO the Altas etc are not worth the money though.
 

·
MINI Obsessed...
Joined
·
4,989 Posts
Hmmm its a fine line to call really. Is stock ok? Yes! People that say you must upgrade are talking rubbish! But you need a stock system that is actually working correctly so make sure it is sealing properly and a ram scoop is a good help. I once again spent saturday lap after lap on full throttle with my stock intercooler and 17% pulley and no blown engine.

Now could I have got more power from an uprated intercooler?? Yes, the GRS and GTT intercoolers flow better and being larger cores reduce pressure loss so you will gain 1-2psi of boost. Add better cooling and quicker recovery times to the mix only improves it.

IATs are hard to test and unless you use a temp probe are quite inaccurate. The ECUs T-MAP sensor pretty much measures the temp of the inlet manifold which takes ages to cool down and so effects your performance even when the air isnt that hot at all.

Best setup is a bigger intercooler like the GRS or GTT that seals correctly and with a ram scoop. Is it worth the money? You decide..... for me around town a BBR ram scoop or even stock is good enough. And my testing has proved it. But often high rpm driving will effect IATs more than a larger intercooler.
 

·
a.k.a. BrainRush
Joined
·
160 Posts
I've got a 15% pulley on my car that I normally have to drive on the highways, where IATs are usually 20 degrees F (11 deg. C.) warmer than the ambient air using the tach's computer and a scangauge for consistancy, however around town, IATs will reach past the 150 degree (65 C) mark. at which point the car starts to sound sick.

If an aftermarket I/C won't help much,what about a water-air intercooler, all the ads say that water cools 25x faster than air, but I can't wrap my head around the fact that the water has to be cooled by air (because energy must be conserved, right?). the only advantage I see is more mass to heat up. so if I were doing more 1/4 mi. stuff it might help, so you can warm up the engine without cooking the intercooler, but thats about the only advantage I see in it.

Anyone willing to correct me on my logic?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,164 Posts
Hmmm its a fine line to call really. Is stock ok? Yes! People that say you must upgrade are talking rubbish! But you need a stock system that is actually working correctly so make sure it is sealing properly and a ram scoop is a good help. I once again spent saturday lap after lap on full throttle with my stock intercooler and 17% pulley and no blown engine.

Now could I have got more power from an uprated intercooler?? Yes, the GRS and GTT intercoolers flow better and being larger cores reduce pressure loss so you will gain 1-2psi of boost. Add better cooling and quicker recovery times to the mix only improves it.

IATs are hard to test and unless you use a temp probe are quite inaccurate. The ECUs T-MAP sensor pretty much measures the temp of the inlet manifold which takes ages to cool down and so effects your performance even when the air isnt that hot at all.

Best setup is a bigger intercooler like the GRS or GTT that seals correctly and with a ram scoop. Is it worth the money? You decide..... for me around town a BBR ram scoop or even stock is good enough. And my testing has proved it. But often high rpm driving will effect IATs more than a larger intercooler.
I was running a stock cooler around castle combe with 17% and the IATs hit 80 degrees!

The month before I was running 20%!! reduction with the GTT intercooler around the massive bedford GT circuit and only saw 70 degrees max IAT.

So with even more boost (heat) the cooler knocked off 10 degress even with bedfords massive flat out back straight.

Its like a stepping stone, all the big power cars run coolers, but saying that I ran my tuned car for 3 years with the stock cooler!
 

·
MMC Member
Joined
·
14,017 Posts
I was running a stock cooler around castle combe with 17% and the IATs hit 80 degrees!

The month before I was running 20%!! reduction with the GTT intercooler around the massive bedford GT circuit and only saw 70 degrees max IAT.

So with even more boost (heat) the cooler knocked off 10 degress even with bedfords massive flat out back straight.

Its like a stepping stone, all the big power cars run coolers, but saying that I ran my tuned car for 3 years with the stock cooler!

True, but the point is that the OP is asking if adding his JCW needs a larger IC. On that note I would say no. However, if he starts to mod then it yes.
 

·
MINI Obsessed...
Joined
·
4,989 Posts
True, but the point is that the OP is asking if adding his JCW needs a larger IC. On that note I would say no. However, if he starts to mod then it yes.
Kind of the line I was thinking :) There is a point where it is required but till then the decision has to be made how far you want to go :)
 

·
MINI Obsessed...
Joined
·
4,989 Posts
I was running a stock cooler around castle combe with 17% and the IATs hit 80 degrees!

The month before I was running 20%!! reduction with the GTT intercooler around the massive bedford GT circuit and only saw 70 degrees max IAT.

So with even more boost (heat) the cooler knocked off 10 degress even with bedfords massive flat out back straight.

Its like a stepping stone, all the big power cars run coolers, but saying that I ran my tuned car for 3 years with the stock cooler!
I think im going backwards.... I useto have a CAI, GTT Intercooler and 4-2-1 Manifold as well but not anymore. Just running a 17% and Big Valve head. Personally its not slower by thats the head thats helps but just wish I borrow all the parts and put them back on for a week and enjoy the extra boost and exhaust again :D But its all part of the project process ;)

Dont think I was hitting temps that big but my big ram scoop does make quite a bit of difference :)
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top