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The Power Cube
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2,287 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

Is the 210BHP kit the power at the engine or wheels ?

Just looking at mini sport conversions. Their 250BHP kit at £5000 offers 205bhp at the wheels.

So, when you see any BHP reading, is this always at the engine ?
Does that mean that the stock MCS of 170bhp will only have something like 130bhp at the wheels ?
When you hear that the Evo VIII has 34bhp is this at the wheels or engine.

All just seems a bit non-standard.
 

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Track addict
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5,960 Posts
After market BHP quotes are a minefield of inaccurate information. The only accurate bhp quote can be at the engine, which is what manufacturers quote. Any quote from a dyno is measured at the wheels and then converted using 'scientific algorithms' (someone sticks a finger in the air) by the tuning company.

What must also be remembered is that claims of BHP increase from after market products are NOT cumalative. For instance, 'Airbox + 10bhp, catback + 8bhp' does not mean an 18bhp increase.

If BMW quote 200bhp, they mean at the engine. If another tuning company quote 250bhp, they mean at the engine, but measured at the wheels and then converted using some kind of allowance for drive train loss etc. Not overly accurate.

Big pinches of salt.
 

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MINI2 No.1
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42,467 Posts
Tony*t3 said:
After market BHP quotes are a minefield of inaccurate information. The only accurate bhp quote can be at the engine, which is what manufacturers quote. Any quote from a dyno is measured at the wheels and then converted using 'scientific algorithms' (someone sticks a finger in the air) by the tuning company.

What must also be remembered is that claims of BHP increase from after market products are NOT cumalative. For instance, 'Airbox + 10bhp, catback + 8bhp' does not mean an 18bhp increase.

If BMW quote 200bhp, they mean at the engine. If another tuning company quote 250bhp, they mean at the engine, but measured at the wheels and then converted using some kind of allowance for drive train loss etc. Not overly accurate.

Big pinches of salt.
Not all aftermarket companies do this, BBR for example did their work on an engine dyno (they had an Aston Martin engine on there when I went down), and I'm fairly sure Hartge would originally have done this, to name a couple.

It's a confusing situation for sure.
 

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Track addict
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5,960 Posts
Paul Mullett said:
Not all aftermarket companies do this, BBR for example did their work on an engine dyno (they had an Aston Martin engine on there when I went down), and I'm fairly sure Hartge would originally have done this, to name a couple.

It's a confusing situation for sure.

There is obviously some level of differing professionalism here then, which should probably be recognised.

Certainly, you would think that there should be a 'British standards' type approach to these claims, something you could quote and refer to.

Interesting how JCW/BMW quote BHP, rather than PS now.... I thought it was all going 'the other way'....
 

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Canned
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13,888 Posts
Tony*t3 said:
Interesting how JCW/BMW quote BHP, rather than PS now.
I still think they're talking about metric horsepower. The difference between the 210 figure from JCW and the 207 figure from MINI USA is the former is metric horsepower. You can obtain the "real" horsepower figure from the engine's kW rating.
 

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MUGEN POWER
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11,372 Posts
Tony*t3 said:
There is obviously some level of differing professionalism here then, which should probably be recognised.

Certainly, you would think that there should be a 'British standards' type approach to these claims, something you could quote and refer to.

Interesting how JCW/BMW quote BHP, rather than PS now.... I thought it was all going 'the other way'....
I "think" PS is a japanese measurement therefore more jap cars maybe quote in PS:confused:

I've read it sum where just don't now where:p

just one thing to note about dyno's they may not be accurate to manufacturers figures but if u test your car before and after a mod on the same dyno same day it will be accurate providing there is no major temp changes etc

:)
 

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Canned
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13,888 Posts
RedUn said:
I "think" PS is a japanese measurement therefore more jap cars maybe quote in PS :confused:
pferdestärke (ps)

German word for horsepower, meaning the metric horsepower. The symbol ps is used for horsepower in both the Japanese and German automotive industies.
 

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MUGEN POWER
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11,372 Posts
MINIAC said:
pferdestärke (ps)

German word for horsepower, meaning the metric horsepower. The symbol ps is used for horsepower in both the Japanese and German automotive industies.
was half correct then:p
 
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