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Hey everyone,

I am planning on ordering my MCS in the next few days and have been debating the $ 500 LSD option. I am not planning on making any performance upgrades to the engine, and it seems that everyone has been getting on fine without it up until this point. I was woondering if people thought it would be necessary on the stock S?

Thanks
 

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A limited slip differential is only a "must" for cars that are driven competitively. If you are an average everyday driver, I'd say you would never miss a LSD. Keep the $500.00 for something you will use.
 

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Ricky, I would want to hear about the performance of the LSD firsthand before ordering.

I agree with Tom that in everyday driving in a stock S it is unnecessary and could prove more unsettling than helpful.
 

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MUGEN POWER
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and std S is fine with no LSD!

the only time u mite notice if u had one is if say u set off really fast in the wet or coming out of the tighter bends in the lower gears in the wet:)
 

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As others have said, LSD is only desirable for agressive, competitive driving. On the other hand, not mentioned yet is DSC, another option that CAN benefit you under semi-agressive and hazardous driving conditions and is worth the $500. (Its part of the Sport Package , if you're already going that route.)
Good luck!
 

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My 2 cents

itsnotsizethatmatr said:
As others have said, LSD is only desirable for agressive, competitive driving. On the other hand, not mentioned yet is DSC, another option that CAN benefit you under semi-agressive and hazardous driving conditions and is worth the $500. (Its part of the Sport Package , if you're already going that route.)
Good luck!
Here's the thing about the LSD option though. Just like everyone has said, it's a benefit it you're doing really aggressive driving, competetively or otherwise. Also it's handy for launching if you've upgraded the engine, which you said you weren't planning to do. BUT, I would say if you have any inkling that you would ever either be interested in aggressive performance driving or in upgrading the car's performance, get the $500 option, because it's never going to be cheaper than that. Aftermarket alternatives cost around $1000 before installation.

The DSC is a nice safety net, but it's not really a performance option since it keeps the car from spinning by slowing down the wheels, whereas the LSD shifts power to the wheel with more traction.

Just wanted to add my 2-bitter-that-I-didn't-have-the-LSD-option cents. :)

Pete
 

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I had a similar question, thanks for the info. My dealer says that the price of the LSD is NOT set at $500. yet and that it will not be a quaiffe. But, if one does have a lsd, does one drive with the dsc off? How would they interact, say, at a track day?
 

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meanboy said:
LSD doesn't have to be a quaife to be effective. The quaife is a gear driven while others are of the clutch variety.

http://www.houseofthud.com/differentials.htm#quattro
Thanks for the link. I'll have to read it carefully soon. I just mentioned quaiffe since I believe it is the one offered by more after market MINI companies. A pal far more astute technically than i ( shoot, that could be the Tasmanian Devil for that matter) thinks that MINI's DSC is too quick to engage. So I still wonder how a lsd would interact with Mr. DSC. BTW, I turn DSC off in New England snow as I have found that my years of NE driving experience is more comfortable than the 'surprise' of a DSC engaging. Maybe this is all moot since there are plenty out there that think the lsd is good only for very aggressive driving. I'll do a few track days next year but mostly I stay within 15 mph of stated limits.....that's when I get to paved roads. Thanks again
 

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John, thinking of trading in to an '05? ;)

I would hope that the LSD would, even for normal round town driving, prevent for example DSC cutting in when you accelerate as you turn (right turn out of a junction for example - or left turn for the Brits).
I have seen the traction control part of DSC (the ASC+T bit) cut in regularly when pulling quickly out of turns, and also sometimes while hard accelerating in a straight line. Hopefully the LSD would eliminate the first of those events?
The only time I think I had "real" DSC cut in, coming a bit too quickly down an off ramp, I hated the result; but maybe I would have hated it even more without DSC? I guess an LSD would not help much then.
 

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LSD might make the problems of the 17" wheels following ruts in the road even worse.

The diff on the Focus RS was highly criticised for this sort of behaviour, and my 05 S already follows channels left in the road by dodgy workmen, and iffy cambers.
 

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Hey, I thought this was a sporting crowd? LSD is the best thing ever invented for a wrong-wheel drive car. If you've got enough power to spin your front tires - which means um any front driver - you'll benefit from the added traction. Yes, more so on corner exit when you're unloading the inside front, but we're big on turning around here, right?
As for DSC, get over it - I think people are buying scared. The minute probability it will save your hide in a single car accident is bested by far by the skill of a driver that has learned its cars limits - everyday. There is no substitute.

Best regards,
Mat
 

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msreingold said:
Hey, I thought this was a sporting crowd? LSD is the best thing ever invented for a wrong-wheel drive car. If you've got enough power to spin your front tires - which means um any front driver - you'll benefit from the added traction. Yes, more so on corner exit when you're unloading the inside front, but we're big on turning around here, right?
As for DSC, get over it - I think people are buying scared. The minute probability it will save your hide in a single car accident is bested by far by the skill of a driver that has learned its cars limits - everyday. There is no substitute.

Best regards,
Mat
Mat -- very good comment!!

MukiMunki said:
LSD might make the problems of the 17" wheels following ruts in the road even worse.

The diff on the Focus RS was highly criticised for this sort of behaviour, and my 05 S already follows channels left in the road by dodgy workmen, and iffy cambers.
I had my JCWS (w/Quaife LSD) at the dealer last week for the 210bhp upgrade and I asked them for a little extra toe-in on the front wheels. That toe-in almost completely made disappear the bad tramlining I had experienced previously! (The tramlining was mostly due to the 17" wheels, not to the Quaife LSD.) Highly recommended. Will keep an eye on front tyre wear, though.

best regards
- Stefan
 

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Tom D said:
A limited slip differential is only a "must" for cars that are driven competitively. If you are an average everyday driver, I'd say you would never miss a LSD. Keep the $500.00 for something you will use.
I totally disagree with this statement. LSD is a huge advantage in snow, dirt roads, ice , mud, standing water, etc in that a mechanical LSD reacts faster than the electronic traction control can and does not apply the brakes or cut the power to stop wheel spin. Ascending a snowy hill is much easier and safer with an LSD than without one.

The newly offered LSD is the only reason that I will be trading up to an '05 MCS. If it were offered from the start I would have ordered it without question on my first MCS.

But that is just one Hobbits opinion.
 

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MukiMunki said:
LSD might make the problems of the 17" wheels following ruts in the road even worse.

The diff on the Focus RS was highly criticised for this sort of behaviour, and my 05 S already follows channels left in the road by dodgy workmen, and iffy cambers.
The tramlining that you are experiencing is caused by the wide, short sidewall, stiff tyres you are using. The installation of an LSD on the MINI with equal length drive shafts should not effect the that. The problem is exacerbated with the installation of wider tyres.

I notice the difference in the amount of tramlining when I switch between my stock MCS 16" runflats and my winter wheels that are the stock 15" 7-hole MINI Cooper wheels. BIG difference!
 

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Lsd

I have the regular differential in my MCS, but I had a RWD Vega with an LSD one winter.

I did not know it had LSD, until I realized it was doing very well in the snow. I tested it by putting one wheel in the snow, and one on the dry pavement, and hitting the gas. When the car accelerated briskly it confirmed my suspicion that it was LSD.

In normal driving you would never know the difference. In ICE, or Packed Snow you had to make a left turn ( U.S.A.) into traffic by by "bringing the back end around" as the Positrak on the rear would push the car straight.

There are several different types of LSD. Some suddenly lock, some provide a preset amount of torque, and then there is the Quaife.

I have never driven a car with a Quaife, but I know that in both Solo II (parking lot) and Solo I, (track) I am spining the inside wheel on corners. At Solo I there is an MCS with a Quaife and he does not spin the inside wheel.

As for Snow and Ice. We had our MCS all last year. It handled as well as any front wheel drive car, except that in order to get through the "plow pile" at the foot of our driveway, we sometimes turn off the DSC so the wheels could spin a little.

JD
 

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I think a lot of the comments in this thread are coming from '04 and earlier MCS drivers.

As an '03 MCS owner, I might be inclined to agree that the LSD wouldn't be of much benefit to the average driver of an '02, '03, or '04 S unless you autocross or drive really aggressively.

However...

I cannot say that the same would hold true for the '05 S. The '05 doesn't seem that much different on paper, but having spent lots of quality seat time in an '05, the car REALLY needs a limited-slip. The change in gearing is the big reason for this. It's much easier in an '05 to break that inside front wheel loose upon corner exit. Even in a stock '05 it's incredibly easy to significantly spin the front wheels in 1st, 2nd and 3rd without even really trying (I'm not talking about a little bark either, I'm talking about spinnnnnnnnnn).

The gearing revisions really do change the overall character of the car. My '05 will have limited-slip and as for the new 210 hp JCW kit, the limited-slip in my opinion is an absolute must have or else all that extra power will go to waste because you simply can't put it down effectively coming out of those corners.

I think even those who drive their MCS "casually" are going to find the LSD to be of great benefit. It of course won't help with putting the power down in a straight line (unless you have one wheel on something slick) but it will really make a lot of difference for cornering.
 

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Thanks Sean,
Your comment and ALL the others have been helpful. I am an '03 MCS driver planning to update and I will do an occasional track day. My dealer cannot pin down lsd cost and I will not believe the $500. thrown around unless it's on paper somewhere.

I know I'm a technical cretin (ask your neighbor obehave whom we have yet to see in NE) but I still do not get how the functions of the lsd would interact with the dsc assuming the dsc is on. Does one countermand the other? I tested my pal's theory that the dsc is quick to engage by driving my car, getting it to 'turn on', then driving a bimmer with dsc and, in this amateurish test, the MINI's dsc activated well before the 330Ci

Anyway, thanks again all
 

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sjbartnik said:
... I cannot say that the same would hold true for the '05 S. The '05 doesn't seem that much different on paper, but having spent lots of quality seat time in an '05, the car REALLY needs a limited-slip. The change in gearing is the big reason for this. ...
I completely concur...

I just had the JCW kit installed on my brand new (non-LSD equipped) 05 HB/W MCS last Friday/Saturday (with just over 100 miles on the clock). I only got to drive the car for a few blocks (it's a long story that I won't go into here, but suffice it to say that I no longer have/own the car - BMW does!), but I can tell you first hand that it was absolutely AMAZING! The whine coming from the supercharger was incredible and the exhaust note was just right (and the increase in low end torque is very welcome indeed). The car is wickedly fast!

Anyway... The new 05 JCW kit is very nicely matched to the new lower gearing on the 05's. When I switched off the DSC, the car smoked its tires all the way through third gear without even trying (You can really see where the LSD will come into play with an 05 JCW). Without the DSC switched on and without a LSD, the car spins its wheels like there's no tomorrow making it difficult to handle.

While having the JCW kit installed on my MCS, the dealer loaned me an 03 MCS with a "Zoomer" exhaust (and reduction pulley???) which they claimed had 180 hp (the exhaust note on the Zoomer was obnoxiously loud though - it was so loud that you could hardly hear the whine of the supercharger - and it really ticked of my neighbors too :rolleyes: ). The car was supper fast and really fun to drive, but I could tell a HUGE difference in the gearing. The 03 is a real dog off the line when compared to the 05 (but it really started screaming when the RPMs increased). No offense to anyone with an older MCS, but for me, the new lower gearing in the 05 makes the car much more drivable in everyday driving situations (and works wonders in a JCW equipped car).

My new 05 will definitely have an LSD! :D

BTW, for those in the know, I posted some of this on a thread in Motoringfile.com and NAM too.
 

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jcsinnh said:
My dealer cannot pin down lsd cost and I will not believe the $500. thrown around unless it's on paper somewhere.
Actually, the MINIUSA.com web site has just been updated and it now shows the LSD avilable on the MCS for U.S. $500. There's your proof! :D
 
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