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6X therapist
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Discussion Starter #1
OK, so you have all, ...well nearly all had a dig...., its been negative and verging on offensive at times, so I thought you would all like to make a proper and constructive complaint and in doing so provide a remedy (A remedy is something that you would propose to make something more acceptable BTW :besmart:).
So instead of just stating negatively your obvious distaste, offer a constructive way to fix the thing you feel is so wrong.
Give it a try, you might find it hard to do, but its a way of getting results that works in all walks of life.:cool:
In other words , dont just say its wrong and you hate it, say what you want in order to make it better. :)
 

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No guts, no glory!
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My personal wish list: colour code the arches and the mirror caps, and lose all the window tinting. I could then live with the car and might even confirm my place in the queue. Other than subjective styling issues, it's a worthwhile step forward: the lightest, fastest, JCW MCS you can buy from the factory -- and one of the last batch -- at a price (if rumours firm up) that's cheaper than building your own.
 
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goonery said:
OK, so you have all, ...well nearly all had a dig...., its been negative and verging on offensive at times, so I thought you would all like to make a proper and constructive complaint and in doing so provide a remedy (A remedy is something that you would propose to make something more acceptable BTW :besmart:).
So instead of just stating negatively your obvious distaste, offer a constructive way to fix the thing you feel is so wrong.
Give it a try, you might find it hard to do, but its a way of getting results that works in all walks of life.:cool:
In other words , dont just say its wrong and you hate it, say what you want in order to make it better. :)
Good idea - this is the feedback I will be giving to BMW UK and hopefully to the factory:

- Not enough power (esp. versus the 230bhp test mules)
- Weight loss could have been more (i.e. why keep air con but not the back seats?) but I understand the use of carbon fibre parts would have bumped the cost up significantly
- Ill-conceived styling: 4 spoke, 18" alloys don't seem to make a lot of sense...look at the Alpina wheels for Mini for an example of agressive wheel style without looking childish
- Ill-conceived styling: whale-tail stuck-on spoiler - looks lke it has come from Halfords, not integrated into the rear of the car properly, looks like it prevents the rear wiper and third brake-light (i.e. safety issue versus "standard" S model)

I don't really like the overall feel of the car at all - looks like a boy racer's wet dream...but that is not constructive so I have not included it in the above! The rest of the styling may appeal to some so I will not include specific comments (although perhaps would not have chosen red for the wing mirrors!)
 

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No guts, no glory!
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Virage1 -- please, please get them to ditch the tints. In anyone's book, they are poor taste and spoil the balance of the original MINI design without contributing anything practical. If the designer has done it because he doesn't like the look of the space behind the seats, cover it with a pullout blind or something....
 
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How about going back to the drawing board? Oops, sorry, you said constructive...

  • Lose the tints
  • ditch the red mirror caps - body coloured or black is fine
  • reduce the size of the GP badging on the rear
  • make the wheels five spoke or start again entirely (depending on how the five spoke works out)
  • fix the interface between the skirts and the wheel arches - either colour code the whole thing or blend them in properly
  • add back the rear wiper - I like to be able to see behind me...
  • find a rear wing that actually looks 'right' on the car
  • make the interior really, really cool.
Oh, and shed another 50KG and find me 20-odd horses...
 

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Half a dent
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Fully colour coded. ie arches mirrors
Aero side skirts are fine
At least 230bhp. Prefearbly 250 bhp
Put back the rear seats
Rear wash wipe
More subtle rear spoiler
Cost 22k
Red rear brake callipers
Since front tints are not legal in UK-lose them entirely:cool:
 

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Track addict
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Well here goes.... 2 choices available to purchasers... -

"GP raw" spec - finish up the bumpers as has been said, ditch the aircon and leave rest as is, round up to 225bhp - easily achieved

"GP comfort" spec - add aircon and JCW rear seats, rear wash/wipe - which are easily removable anyway, round up to 225bhp



Give everyone who orders 3 sets of mirror caps - Red, Black and colour coded - wont cost much:rolleyes:



How 225bhp? Enlarged crank pulley should crack it and would be reliable.
Perhaps the JCW carbon fibre wing would go down better...?
 

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I would have thought a lot of the negative comments concerning the GP are twofold really... 1) To do with the lack of horsepower especially after what has been bandied about and, 2) The apparent 'rice' look of the car considering just how good the car with the standard aerokit is...

My own 2p worth would be to look in JCG's direction at the prospect of some of the items they have at their disposal...


Standard Aero kit
- There is really nothing better out there ;) :p
JCW C/F rear wing (OK not to everyone's taste, but we are talking about making it exclusive) ;)
Split rim alloys - expensive on such a short run but no doubt achieveable knowing BMW's clout
Colour Code the arches in, this is a popular move for so many people
A little extra bhp - no doubt achievable with a little tweaking, maybe 230hp
Something special for the exhaust tails - twin pipes split, similar to the Harge Spirit system to mark it out as special ;)
Unique interior front seat leather (perhaps match the mirror caps) :p
Carbon Fibre Dash (Not sure of the interior at the present time)
Carbon Fibre door inserts
Rear brake callipers - To match the fronts colour wise, perhaps even choose a different colour... everyone has red
Perhaps 2 colour choices, not 1

I'm sure I could go on :p :D
 

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fix the interface between the skirts and the wheel arches - either colour code the whole thing or blend them in properly - add back the rear wiper - find a rear wing that actually looks 'right' on the car - and give the car 245bhp - and preserve the hatchback interior by getting the full JCW seats
 

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003 On a Mission
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:red: :red: :)
It depends on which Punter it is aimed at;)
Driving enthusiast or Boy Racer or Track Day Man


Driving enthusiast would probably want all the toys and more power
Boy Racer probably just wants visual effect
Track Day Man wants power to weight no toys
So who is BMW going to lean toward.:confused:

22K
Put rear seats back
Non runflats a lighter rims
Colour coded body parts
230bhp at least
Better/bigger intercooler
Bit more BLING under bonnet
Rear wiper etc
Bigger brakes preferably red
Better sounding exhaust note (not raucous )
Lose all unnecessary toys

Just some of my ramblings
 

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No guts, no glory!
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572 Posts
Re Wibbly's idea of two colour choices. How about Blue with Silver OR Silver with Blue?
That wouldn't even involve them in buying-in extra paint. Personally, I think the silver (of the roof) would be the better overall colour and the 'anthractite blue' could be used for roof, accents, wing mirrors. (BTW: my dealer - who has been spot on with cost/release date, reckoned the colour was going to be Moonstone. I presume that's a BMW colour...?)
 

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...where´s the any-key?
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ok in order:

1.) Ditch the bodykit........it's plain ugly.
2.) Have some lighter panels, it is the only way you'll get some serious weight loss.
3.) Increase bhp - hot hatches are coming out in the 240bhp bracket these days, this car needs to at least match them.
4.) Have some phat brakes on the rear as well as the front.
5.) Drop the stupid name
 

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I guess it all depends on what the offical MINI brief is to be able to spec/design the car, as I think everyone is speccin' up an ultimate light weight MCS, but was that the original idea from MINI?

Anyway, I'll have my go at what I would want from an end of line special MCS:)



Full JCW treatment, JCW kit, suspension, brakes, seats, strut brace, carbon fibre trimmings all over.

The other bits that are not mentioned, I would like to see a sports manifold and cat, larger intercooler, possible get some braided hoses on the brakes, some of the nice features that you can do aftermarket are what I would have expected on this, and an increase in bhp to at least 230bhp.

Weight, well I don't mind if the rear seat is gone or not, but I think that aircon should be an option, so then those that want it can have it those that want a lightweight car can have that. But I think it needs to shed a few more kilos, carbon fibre is pricey and would have implications that would prevent this car entering certain makets, but how about aluminum panels? Surely they would reduce some weight out the car and also not need any investment in tooling so keep development costs down?

Styling, well this is where I feel what we have seen so far has totally gone the wrong way, the Missano GP looks too aftermarket, too Saxo/Corsa and all those other cars that are the reason we brought MINI's. MINI has something that no other car on the market has, its simplistic styling based on a classic design, with heritage behind it. All of this seems to have been forgotten by the designer of the GP. Why not step back and think what is MINI about? Take a look at what works already, namely the aero kit, simple continuous design that doesn't look like an after thought, it flows with the design of the car and that is what should be built on. The special should be more stealth than a high profile street racer, it should be missed if you don't look carefully, and it should surprise those that just look and think oh its just a MINI;)
 

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Now With More Cowbell
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1. Jettison the red mirror caps. There's no functional or aesthetic rationale for them. Colour code the caps to the roof instead.

2. Assuming no fitment issues, fit ultra-low weight 16" rims with at least five spokes. If those don't clear the brake calipers, 17" rims will do. There is no reason to go with 18" other than looks, and the consequences of those looks hamper rather than help performance.

3. Reinstate the rear wiper. It weighs next to nothing and its usefulness is unquestionable.

4. Let's have some real weight savings. Clearly one can't expect 500 lbs, but a figure of 150 should be achievable with rear seat delete, front seat upgrades, wheel upgrades, insulation removal, lightweight exhaust and a token alloy or CF body panel (bonnet or hatch would be nice). Dare I suggest that we leave aside 4 of the six airbags too? The best way to survive an accident is to not be in one. ;)

5. Fix the rear wing design. This isn't 1994 and we aren't driving Cossies. One of the beauties of the MCS wing is that it's really not something one notices from most angles. It's subtle and integrated into the overall design.

6. Standard aero kit. It would be cheaper, more readily available and meshes better with the overall design.

7. Offer two unique colours.

I'm not among the majority who thinks power should be 225, 230, or more. I think there's a certain element of diminishing returns and that 218 is a reasonable number.
 

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Track addict
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Humourl3ss said:
I'm not among the majority who thinks power should be 225, 230, or more. I think there's a certain element of diminishing returns and that 218 is a reasonable number.

I understand what your saying, but "standard" high volume hot hatches are doing over 200bhp now, with 225 seemingly easily achievable, to all buyers of these competitors - so how can a 'special' like this only have 218bhp...????

Focus ST - 225bhp
Astra (crap but) 240+bhp
Leon Cupra R - 225bhp

What will we see from the next Civic Type R?

Looking forward to Paul's reports.... If they tidy the car up, well, hell, I'd just take it to GTTuning to uprate it to 240 ish anyway I guess.... problem with that is its more good money after more initial spending
 

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Bring the noise
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My 2 penneth....
Styling...
Loose the 4 spoke wheels and swap for the X5 style rims as used by Schnitzer ?
Either make the skirt and wheel arch trims black or body colour.
Ditch the nasty looking silver inlays for black or body colour ones or ditch them completely.
I would like to see optional decal/stripes available and another colour choice such as red.

Weight...
Not too sure what has been removed but for weight reduction remove as much as possible. Electric windows, aircon, sound-proofing, use thinner glass, lighter seats with no rears.

Power...
218 sounds OK to me - but you can always use more. 220 would sound better as would 225 !

Overall...
It's a neat idea which could have been executed a whole lot better and I don't think the MINI range needs it Limited Edition or not. It appears to be marketing over matter and I like the Checkmate S and see the GP as a poor attempt to inject life into the range. I do hope MINI continue with LEs but with cars such as the Park Lane etc which offer MINI customers a genuine alternative instead of a Halo effect type car.
 

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J C W+

Full JCW spec inc Suspension, brakes, seats, aerokit, carbon fibre interior/exterior etc, lightweight 16/17" wheels in titanium / black - poss std nonChilli S design & NON RUNFLATS !!

Power issue I guess is fwd torque steer .. upgrade to 230ish with LSD, DSC software tweaks poss

Still love the DS/B colour scheme but surely this Works+ package could be applied to any colour, spec just as other options are currently; badging should be JCW

Are they working on the Ultimate Comfort Pack Ltd Edition too - SatNav, AutoAC, Vis Pack, Harmon Kardon, Full Leather etc?
 

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Taller Than You!
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Exclusive racing technology made for the road.
While developing the MINI Cooper S with John Cooper Works GP Kit, engineers focussed predominantly on even greater agility and high driving stability. Modifications to the intercooler as well as engine tuning measures have boosted power output of the free-revving 1.6-litre supercharged power unit to around 160 kW (218 bhp).
In order that such power and the high maximum torque of 180 foot-pounds are transferred securely to the road, this limited special edition features a limited slip differential as standard. Dynamic Stability Control DSC is available as an option. High-performance brakes by John Cooper Works featuring red-lacquered brake callipers on the front wheels ensure optimum stopping power. Additional standard equipment by John Cooper Works includes a sports suspension and an awesome sound generated by the specially constructed Tuning Kit. An additional new highlight are the weight-reduced 18-inch alloy wheels specially designed for the MINI Cooper S with John Cooper Works GP Kit.

http://www.motoringfile.com/2005/10/31/jcw_gp_kit_us_announcement

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Sounds like it comes with Works Brakes and Suspension.
 

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Here's my ideas :-

Power/Weight
- 220 is fine as long as you can get the power down quickly out of bends.
- Get the weight below it's competition(Leon, Astra, etc) so huge power isn't needed, use maybe a carbon fibre bonnet(lighter and a very racer look), lighter magnesium wheels(honda Integra), less soundproofing inside, carbon seats rather than steel(Recaro style), leave the rear seats in otherwise how can you show off to your mates :D
- Improve the handling by using the JCW bits from the race series

Sound:
- As they have to pass new car sound regs, why don't they add a bypass valve into the exhaust(like the DB9) so it rasps at higher revs a bit like a rally car and have quad tailpipes(M3 style).
- The supercarger is a feature, we want to hear it whine more, strip the soundproofing from the engine bay

Design:
- 2 colour choices that are unique and maybe a solid black, everything bodymatched and maybe even lose the stripes as too many cars are copying them (Fiesta ST, Fiat Panda!! anyone).
- sort out the bodykit, as mentioned before, use the Aerokit as a basis & tweek it a little, that kit looks like it came off something else.
- use the Hartge Union Jack wheels - this is a British icon after all :tongue:
- slick the rear wiper back on, we all know it's needed
 
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