MINI Cooper Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone,

I purchased my first Mini just over 2 weeks ago. Cooper, 2012 with 59k on the clock and came with part service history- last service was Jan 2016 which is almost 4 years ago. Purchased it from a local dealer and it came with 12 month extended warranty and was told it would get a full service upon sale. The car was last MOT'd in October 2019 when there was 58k on the clock and the only advisories were worn tyre which were fixed.

I'll be the first to admit I don't know much about cars so I was looking for some guidance on the following. Met up with a mate after I purchased the car who has his own diagnostic laptop that mechanics use. He plugged it in and it came up with a 5e5d code which states 'DSC brake lining wear indicator rear, brake pads' and then below that it states 'intermittent'. No warning light coming up on the dash so far. He then checked the disc brakes by running his finger from the middle to the end and said all 4 were quite badly worn as they had a significant lip on the outer edge. Got a couple of more car minded people to check this and they both agree the brake discs are badly worn.

After speaking to my mechanic over the phone, he suggested that maybe a full service hasn't been done on the car as its from a dealer and margins are tight so the likelihood is all they've done is changed the oil and oil filter (this matches up to what is showing in the service book). He said disc brakes wont be a MOT failure unless they are in a really bad state and as there is no warning light for the break pads on the dash it will be tough to prove anything despite the diagnosis machine showing the 5e5d code. He suggested going back to the dealer and complaining there is a noise coming form the rear side of the car when braking and see if they will fix it as a GOGW as it will come under a wear and tear item and likely not be covered by warranty. So that's what I've done and the car is booked at the dealers to have a look at this Friday. I've got a funny feeling im going to get fobbed off though! My mechanic said the code doesn't really prove anything and suggested i keep that information in the back pocket for now and maybe bring it up later. I cant actually hear a grinding noise when I brake either so I reckon the dealer will tell me they just given the brakes a clean. Should any of this been flagged up in the service? Anyone got any experience or knowledge with the 5e5d code? I obviously don't want to have to MOT my car in 10 months time and then face the prospect of paying for new brake pads and/or brake discs when i average about 2k mileage a year...

Any help appreciated
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,173 Posts
59000 is about the life span of brake discs and is a wear and tear item, in a service including brakes service the disc would of been checked for thickness and autodata would give the tolerances ie how much wear is still within spec,, on full service no one automatically fits new brake discs, will fit them if worn below safe amounts brake service would tend to be strip re grease sliders and check for rust on piston surfaces etc, i think the fronts are 22m and the rears are solid think 8mm springs to mind can check this by going on europarts webpage enter reg number then look at brake discs and fitment details,, i just done a set on a cooper s with under 60k on it and were still well within the limits of wear as such but fronts were lipped and rears were just pitted front rust and lack of use, think last two mot's just said about the rust and worn but not dangerous etc,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
The dealer initially tried giving me the fast one by advising me the brakes have been cleaned and polished. When I brought up the subject of badly worn disc brakes they said they had noticed that but in their opinion their was around 5-6k miles left on them before they needed changing. I asked them to measure the exact thickness and both the front and rear discs fell below the minimum tolerance levels by 0.6-0.8mm so its not even borderline. I advised the service manager of the thresholds but he didn't back down but informed me to speak to the sales manager tomorrow as he is the one who has to authorise if the dealership end up paying out for new brake discs. Might have to get trading standards involved if the sales manager doesn't play ball as they have essentially sold me a car with knackered brakes and didn't tell me about this when they did a 'full service'....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,173 Posts
how many miles since buying the car is important and also you should write to garage where bought the car a notice letter you are within you consumer rights rejecting this car due to not road worthy due to brakes totally worn out under the prescribed tolerance of the discs,, add that under the mot laws you will also be reporting this car to VOSA that there were no mentions of brakes worn on advisories on mot test,, ie all mot tests must inform via advisories the state of brake discs ie pitted rusted or near end of life and should of picked it up etc,, this should knee jerk them as if they do their mot's in house ots the very last thing they want VOSA banging on the door also trading standards and a country court case where they know they will loose and get handed the court cost n top,, where for the sake of £200 trade money could do the right thing,, include in letter what you want to happen ie they sort the cars all brake disc and pads and you will need a car to use while in having it done,,,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
So after I gave them the minimum brake disc tolerance measurements (20.4mm for the front and 8.4mm for the back) it all went quiet on their part. Had to chase them and they've come back and said they've found different tolerance levels on their system which are lower for my model-19.6mm for the front and 7.6mm for the back. I've got a standard mini cooper non S version so maybe the figures i got from the net are wrong. Mike1976, I popped my reg on the eurocarparts site and it comes back as 22 for front and 8 for back.... I'm currently waiting to hear from the dealership to confirm but would anyone know on here what they are for my car?

Anyway, despite coming up with new tolerance limits, the front discs still fell right on the limit so they've agreed to change the discs and pads as a GOGW but refuse to change the back as there is still 0.2mm life left which according to them is roughly 4-5k miles...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,173 Posts
take the car to vosa let them decide on whether it should of been mot'd and start pushing them again is what i would do, they are still trying it on, we still are under EU laws for fit for purpose and free of faults etc brakes are a dangerous item when not right , as once they fit the front brakes on you will loose any claim to rears etc, you could also remind them the internet can do good and can do harm to any business with bad or good reviews,, ie you would rather give them a good review than a load of bad ones of course, as for there well its 0,2mm i would question if that measurement has been taken all over the disc or the biggest point, maybe go to a kwik- fit garage and ask for a brake survey might cost you a few quid but will then have in writing what they are and what should be etc evidence that they will see can and will be used in court if that what they choose by not doing the right thing as such
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Spoke to the Mini dealership over the phone who emailed me evidence over that the minimum thickness for front and back brake discs are 20.4 and 8.4 so whatever measurements they have on their system are wrong. The thickness measurements that the dealer provided has apparently been taken at the lowest point of the disc. Ill get back onto them now. Just to clarify, I lose any rights if they just change the front ones even though the back ones are below the threshold?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,173 Posts
Spoke to the Mini dealership over the phone who emailed me evidence over that the minimum thickness for front and back brake discs are 20.4 and 8.4 so whatever measurements they have on their system are wrong. The thickness measurements that the dealer provided has apparently been taken at the lowest point of the disc. Ill get back onto them now. Just to clarify, I lose any rights if they just change the front ones even though the back ones are below the threshold?
yes you will loose rights to the rears being done as in affect by accepting there off with the rears mentioned as part of the deal technically will make it harder if had to got to court to repair the car, also your saying car is not roadworthy in this state as worn below the legal limit so technically stop driving it inform them in writing you have stopped for the reasons of road safety etc with evidence form mini of worn past the limits they state etc, could also remind them of their legal responsibility when selling car to the public and fit for purpose laws and safe etc, also remond them county court and engineers report will cose you in the beginning around £500 plus expenses ie car is not road worthy so taxi and bus fees or hire or a car while suing him and this will be all claimed back at point the judge will rule in your favour as clearly car brakes are not with in roadworthy state etc ,, i promise you courts never go in favour of motor trader as they should know what they are selling is correct and has a warranty, in fact eu law says a car owner up to 6 months time can reject a car of dont fit in to their lifestyle anymore as a case went to high court on those grounds and the ruling was just that, and also ruled no car buyer when buying off a car dealer can give back any right to a warranty on any car,, so even if car dealer says 30 days warranty there is still a legal way for up to 6 months or maybe longer ,
below link a must read
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
mike1967, thanks for your help! After threatening to take the MOT station to VOSA and taking it to another garage for a brake test along stating the consumer tights act 2015, they've now advised they will change the front and the back brakes as a 'gesture of goodwill'. A bunch of cowboys trying it on for 5 days then acting like they are doing me a favour when they tried selling a car which had knackered brakes ?. Its at times like this I wish the car industry had more stricter regulation as essentially they've sold a car that is not road legal but despite this it took a hell of a fight to get them to do the right thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,173 Posts
thought they would as soon as hit them head on with your plan and they hate comeback via vosa involved as fines are unlimited etc a 5k car sale can end up being a 20k plus expense to the dealer
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
429 Posts
this was a Mini main dealer? Name and shame as long as fair saying 'eventually' this was resolved. It doesn't make you wonder what else on the car is beyond it's service life that you can't see or there isn't a warning for. Great that you got this done. Confirm they have renewed the pads with the discs not refaced them if even that unless you can see they're new
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
this was a Mini main dealer? Name and shame as long as fair saying 'eventually' this was resolved. It doesn't make you wonder what else on the car is beyond it's service life that you can't see or there isn't a warning for. Great that you got this done. Confirm they have renewed the pads with the discs not refaced them if even that unless you can see they're new

No it wasn't a mini dealer, it was just small dealership local to me who don't normally specialise in minis but had one on the back of a part exchange. I can message you the name of the place if you still want it. Am I worried what else is lurking beneath the surface? Yep! Suppose you run that risk buying any used car but its made me a bit more anxious for sure. Its one of the reasons I didn't go for a cooper s in the end as there is more to go wrong with it in the long run. I'll make sure to check the brake pads tomorrow when I pick the car up-might be worth asking for receipts of the parts but not sure they'd provide this as I havnt paid for them or the labour.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
429 Posts
yes always pot luck buying, not necessarily any difference between private and dealers regarding that but dealers are the ones protecting a margin or relying on 2 bit warranties to fix stuff they know is pre-existing etc. The new pads will be pretty obvious, like here.... you can see the friction material and just make out the backplate, they won't show you an invoice. Ignore these rusty discs, it's what happens when you don't use cars for a long time, they've cleaned up a bit since this, they were actually almost new prior to standing ;O)
276605
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,173 Posts
see this all the time where people think because they buy form a garage its all going to be repaired before offered for sale rarely is to be honest, i've worked in motor trade for years in all kinds of garages some had sales as well, one thing i noticed i'm upfront with anyone its just my way, so many people i have spoken to when selling a sales car for where i have worked as soon as i tell them its had a rebuilt anything they walk away from that car and buy one thats had nothing done to it,, all fuelled by online AA and RAC guide lines where they state buyers should walk away from such cars etc,,but the key bit these people dont think about thats based on 3-4 year old car with very lol mileage and not a 6-20 year old car with 3 owners say, also this silly believe that timing chains are for ever,,, hmmmm they are not on mini, BMW. vw. Audi. seat .Nissan, Renault Peugeot Citroen ford even Mercedes,,, all range around how hard driven and how many miles and oil changes,, ,rule of thumb 60-100k most of these makers do say service item timing chain and give a mileage span,, then add the bi-products a out of time engine will cause to all engines the reality sinks in best to change as soon as feel car wont rev clean or emissions start get high etc,
this all said all car sale only sites are just people with the gift of the gab and people who can convince someone to a buy a car etc and they know nothing about what they are selling on a mechanical level its just about grabbing your money,,
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top