MINI Cooper Forum banner

1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
783 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have become very concerned with the upward spiraling weight of the MINI. I heard it referred to as "just over a ton" on a TV show, then saw the specs, indicating the Cooper weighed 2300+lbs. OK, well, not TOO much over a ton.
Then the S is announced at 2469. 150 pounds for the supercharger, etc. OK.
Then it's 2513. Still, one of the lightest cars on the road in the U.S.
Now, it's 2700 - well on its "weigh" to being as heavy as a lot of larger, more conventional cars.
I have become quite annoyed by this. I consider smallness and lightness to be automotive virtues, but smallness in the absence of lightness doesn't seem like such a great deal. I was perusing the latest issue of Road & Track last evening, and was taking note of the various cars' test weights. I was thinking that every single one was 500 pounds heavier than it "should" be (except the Caterham 7, that is). Then I saw that the new Mercedes SL weighs over 4000lbs - 1000 pounds overweight. Then, I see the new Bentley Arnage weighs 6000 pounds - 2000 pounds overweight.
So, even if the S is 200-300 pounds overweight, it is still a fairly light car, and considering how much equipment is packed into it, maybe we're fortunate it doesn't weigh more. Still, it bothers me that the p/w ratio has dropped below the MR2 Spyder, Focus SVT, Civic Si, Sentra SE-R Spec V, and is now WAY behind the RSX. "Torque", I keep telling myself, "it's all in the torque."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
You forget that BMW understated the power of the cooper by 5%, it is likely that it will be similar in the cooper S meaning about 171bhp. So stop worrying.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
783 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
OMIGOD! Do you suppose they understated the weight by 5%, too? 2700, times one point oh five . . . zero . . . zero . . . carry the 5 . . . Now it weighs over 2800 lbs.! Aaarrrrgggghhhh!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
What's all the fuss? If you take it for a test drive and you don't like it... don't buy it. It's that simple.
But I'll bet almost everyone WILL like it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
An inportant thing to bear in mind when you compare the weights of modern cars with VW Golf from 1975 or an BMW 2002 is the fact that alt least in europe 75 kg for the driver plus around 80% fuel filling is included in the number. The MINI Cooper weight dry (without oil, fuel, battery acid and cooling water) just under a ton - about 980 kg.
And if you would design todays cars with the methods of the seventies, they probably would weight plus 40-50%. It really became a very hard job to stop them growing heavier and heavier. Every detail you spot on a BMW and probably on the MINI is optimated in concerns of weight.
Maybe when its possible to solve the recycling problem with CFK Bodies (Carbon Fiber) it would be possible to build MUCH lighter cars. Maybe the next generation of MINIs. :)

j.:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
339 Posts
I am also puzzled by the ever-increasing weight of the MINI. The MINI will be the smallest (at least shortest) car on USA roads that is currently in production. One would think that technology was advancing at a rate that would also make the MINI the lightest car. The original mini was such a car. The MINI has become just another small luxury car. Many of us hoped that the MINI would be a reincarnation of the mini, that was not to be. 40 years of technological advances (?) have given us heavier cars than the originals? I think not. I think that somewhere during those 40 years we all forgot what a true performance car is. There are those of us who want performance and those who want luxury. Unfortunately, a compromise adds a lot of WEIGHT. That is the present overweight situation.

Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
785 Posts
"Quick"

Quick is a relative term. But when heard from my dealerships new Service Manager, it means something to me. Also a racer, he drives his S2000 in the summer and just bought a Sentra SE-R Spec V for his "winter car".

Today I was talking to him while viewing Sylvia's Cooper for the second time in the Mid-Atlantic. He said he just drove the S a couple weeks ago at one of these gatherings. Keep in mind his cars...he described the "S" as VERY quick, and "you'll love it".

I can't say that totally convinces me, but it sure helps.

As for the weight, apparently, if you do the conversion from kg to lbs, from the previous tested cars, it comes out to *include* a 75kg/160lb driver. The new weight directly matches the previous overseas weight.

Now, empty the gas tank, and like in one of my previous posts, you're not far off a Miata.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Personally, I think they purposefully left MINI on the heavy side for safety reasons. 40 years ago when they original Minis were sold here in the states, safety was not such a huge marketing/selling point. Today, however, it is. Add to that the fact that it seems like about 75% of the vehicles on the road are big hulking trucks and SUVs and it becomes clear you want a bit of weight even (or perhaps especially) on a small car such as the MINI.

PigLick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,291 Posts
Why bother adding the weight of the driver and fuel?

Does it really make sense to add these miscellaneous items to a weight figure? I'm just thinking that they should have a sort of standard for vehicle weights so that the uninformed can just look at the weight of the car and say:

"Wow that car weighs 900 KG and that one 1050 KG"

If one manufacturer adds an average driver and 80% fuel but another doesn't, unless you're 'in-the-know' how can you tell which is the proper weight? Is there some way of telling which manufacturer does this and which doesn't?

Apparently so (I just found this as I was writing this message):

The E.E.C. Kerb weight includes vehicle with full fuel tank, oil and water, spare wheel, tools and driver( 75kg).

From this website:

http://home.halden.net/landrover/dimensions_&_weight.htm

or this:

6 Figures according to Directive 92/21/EC, version 95/48/EC (weight in ready-to-drive condition, fuel tank 90% full, with driver, 68 kg, and luggage, 7 kg) for standard-specification vehicles. Optional extras and accessories will generally increase the weight and decrease the payload capacity
7 With the weight given according to DIN 70020 the kerb weight quoted is reduced by 75 kg (corresponding to kerb weight without driver and luggage)

From this website:

http://www.mercedes-benz.com/e/cars/a-class/a160td.htm

Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be too helpful (i.e. the standards are a bit sloppy). It also doesn't indicate who uses this 'standard' and who doesn't.

So if we're to assume that the weight of the Cooper S is 1140 KG and they add 75KG driver and 35KG fuel (50 litres = 11 Imp Gals = 13 US Gals = 78 Ibs = 35KG) then the empty weight is 1030KG (this of course includes oil/water and other bits)

If ALL manufacturers use the EEC Kerb Weight directive (or something similar) then the above calculation doesn't matter, but if they don't (and it would be good to find out who doesn't) then this could be significant.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
577 Posts
tucco, BMW tests their cars at the Munich factory, which is at an elevation of 3000 feet. Less HP is produced at altitude, so even though the Cooper is "rated" at 115, it is closer to 123 at sea level. This has been verified in the dyno runs done in the UK.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
unfortunately this is wrong.
The lower air pressure due to the higher altidude (of the test benches) in munich are compensated by an DIN/ISO correction factor that lifts up the measured output to the one which would be measured at 1018 mbar (near Sea level) and 20°C.
Measuring differnces on test runs on other test benches are resulting from the different types of test benches. Important is that the homologation takes place on a engine test bed - Motorjournal mostly measure on vehicle test benches. The lower output due to the loss in the drive train and the tires is also compensated by more ore less exact correction factors to the output at the clutch.

Why modern cars are much heavier then their ancestors is first of all because of the safety regulations and their crash resistance. The old Mini was taken from the US market for safety reasons (I think) - with the possibility for US customers (and their lawyers!) to claim Millions of US Dollars from the manufacturer because the car is not idiot-proofed and super safe, the car makers won't ever offer again pure drive machines, which are really reduced to the driving factors. IMO the layout of the MINI is quite a risk for the US market. I could imagine it doesn't take a long time, that a lawyer blaims BMW for the direct steering because his client was irritated by a spilled coke on his trouser, turned the steering wheel to much, drove in a garden fence or worse in a group of school pupils.
I wonder why Alfa Romeo decided to stay away from the US market - beatiful cars but maybe they don't trust their own safety and reliability standards :)?

j.:)

ps: I bet the US users of this site know how to turn the steering wheel in the apropriate way - so don't take me wrong ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,586 Posts
Did I imagine this or does the S have a double-weight flywheel? Which would go some way to explaining the added weight vs. the Cooper

(Some threads never die, BTW)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,646 Posts
rich said:
Did I imagine this or does the S have a double-weight flywheel?
I don't think so. It has a twin-mass flywheel, but that does not necessarily mean it is twice as heavy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Dont wish to appear stupid but...

It's a fantastic car, great fun to drive and a thousand degrees cooler than any other tedious VW, Seat, or other wide-boy go-faster, white baseball hat and UV-lit piece of guano on the road.

Who cares about the exact weight, exact BHP, just drive it, if you don't like it - take it back and give it to someone who does.

And frankly, having owned an Alfa GTV for the past two years, anyone complaining about little bits and pieces of niggly problems with steering, trim, finish or anything else should try one of those - fabulous sports car, just don't touch anything more than once or it'll fall off - and they cost £20,000.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
783 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I care about the exact weight. And, the EXACT horsepower. And the exact materials used in the interior. And the exact design and construction of the suspension. If I didn't, why would I bother hanging around a MINI enthusiast site?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
This might scare you, but

It's fun? It's the kind of car that attracts a certain kind of owner? These people tend to be internet literate, have fashion sense and have a sense of humour?

OR...we all spend our evenings tinkering over car manuals, getting covered in grease and recording number plates in sequenced annuals that we keep in plastic folders on our home-built shelves, pausing only during masturbation to reach for the dial-out pizza number.

OH, and can I just add...it's the word enthusiast that I use to describe to people who cringe when I recommend this site and club to them if they're considering buying a Mini.....the exact phrase goes: 'Don't worry, it's not like some anorak's enthusiast club.'
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
722 Posts
I agree that most of the weight gain is safety related plus the luxury bits, which you can control a little. Don't get a sunroof, that reportedly adds over 60 lbs. of weight up high, where it also affects the leaning moment of gravity calculation more than if it was down low. Use lightweight wheels, reducing unsprung weight has a larger effect on handling than reducing weight in general. Live without power seats, extra stereo equip., extra lights, etc.. It all adds up with the weight of the accessories, motors, wiring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
783 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Oh, dukesantos, please just put on your silk scarf and driving gloves, and don't bother with all that technical stuff - it ruins your profile!
Seriously; I want to hear about polar moment of inertia, bump steer, torque curves, etc., right along with color choices and MINI t-shirts.
I want my MINI to be more Mini than mini-740i, so the weight and complexity of the car is having a negative impact on my ability to be always sunny about the MINI.
I think I'll turn right rather than left, pay someone's toll, and I'm sure I'll feel much better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Ok boys - let's work this out

Ok, so people can talk about technical intricacies if they want......but can those of you who want to, at least occassionally also talk about the best CD to listen to in your MINI, which cars you've managed to burn off at roundabouts and how many people have pointed and smiled at your fantastic car.......

Yours, smilingly, shallow, uneducated about the majority of stuff under the bonnet,....but happy.

MiniJamie
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top