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Hi. I bought a BMW F20 118i with N13 1.6 engine. The engine was low water damaged. Cleaned spark plugs and as the mileage was 65000 so I changed the timing chain with a TOOL also. The engine start ok. no misfiring. no hesitation. but after 3-4 minutes these fault codes with a message -Drivetrain problem – comes in the display. three fault codes are
1; 120408 Charging pressure control: switch-off as consequence
2: 12A701 Catalytic converter downstream oxygen sensor, electrical fault: circuit short to battery (+)
3: 130304 VANOS (Variable camshaft timing) exhaust: control fault, camshaft stuck
Changed the solenoid valves. Changed the exhaust VANOS. Changed the oil filter and OIL. Opened oil pan and checked pick up screen. still the same problem.
Please advice. Thanks
 

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Hi. I bought a BMW F20 118i with N13 1.6 engine. The engine was low water damaged. Cleaned spark plugs and as the mileage was 65000 so I changed the timing chain with a TOOL also. The engine start ok. no misfiring. no hesitation. but after 3-4 minutes these fault codes with a message -Drivetrain problem – comes in the display. three fault codes are
1; 120408 Charging pressure control: switch-off as consequence
2: 12A701 Catalytic converter downstream oxygen sensor, electrical fault: circuit short to battery (+)
3: 130304 VANOS (Variable camshaft timing) exhaust: control fault, camshaft stuck
Changed the solenoid valves. Changed the exhaust VANOS. Changed the oil filter and OIL. Opened oil pan and checked pick up screen. still the same problem.
Please advice. Thanks



the coking up the valves can be cured with a additive spray sprayed straight in to air inlet air filter removed this link below,

Sea Foam | Makers of Sea Foam Motor Treatment & Other Engine Products

timing chains are really bad have seen a high number or turbo car with under 50.000 miles with snapped or tension-er failure leading to chain failure,, ( these engines car be repaired after chain failure most of the time) i have done hundreds of them.,

the vanos sprockets must be replaced when changing timing chain as complete kit, the cheap locking tools on ebay i have found to be 3-5 degrees out retarded on the timing. laser tools do a good kit. also the oil operated solenoid valves that control the vvt have filter gauze's on them these get bits of carbon blocking them, not reving correctly first place to check remove and clean..

bmw say these engines are within spec 1 litre to 1.8 litre of engine oil used for 300 miles,, joys of low resistance pistons and bores.

oil pump, seen these fail in two ways, one is random low oil pressure then full oil pressure, carbon gets in to oil pressure release valve on the pump sealed unit,, also if car has snapped its timing chain bits get locked in it,, always remove oil pump and strip it clean it spotless after t chain failure, also the oil pump is driven by a small chain off crankshaft this chain has a habit of snapping after 100k or so.. always replace with sprockets,
i have seen a lot of cars with new coil packs new plugs as owner thought the misfire and misfire on bank 1 or and bank 2 fault codes were coil packs or plug issues when reality was timing chain was stretched and the engine was misfiring due to the over lap on valve timing way way out, right on the verge of snapping the chain when these fault codes appear.
all these issues are not just with mini and prince engines,, i see a lot of bmw petrol engines with all the above faults,, i also see vw audi seat petrol engines with timing chains with same issues,, the key is treat timing chain as you would a timing belt and changed it every 50 60 k and you should be ok.. i use febi bilsteen or FAI branded chain kits as have found then to be a bit as good if not better than the om ones
 

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1; 120408 Charging pressure control: switch-off as consequence
2: 12A701 Catalytic converter downstream oxygen sensor, electrical fault: circuit short to battery (+)
3: 130304 VANOS (Variable camshaft timing) exhaust: control fault, camshaft stuck
number 1 turbo issue maybe from the damage of over heated engine would point me to checking oil pressure when also when hot if will run ,
2 downstream 02 sensor might be cooked melted within and short circuit to positive, could also be a ecu fault,
3 also oil pressure first check on list then the oil control rings within the first cam journal or maybe engine got so hot it hurt the vanos sprockets,, i just done a citreon with same prince engine was cooked so hard it dropped the valve seats out the heat, that needed new cat both 02 sensors map sensor thermostat housing and both vanos sprocket all got hurt be the heat and thats was a lucky one
 

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I already changed the Vanos Sprocket and Two Oil Control Rings within the First Cam Journal and oil pressure is also ok.


1; 120408 Charging pressure control: switch-off as consequence
2: 12A701 Catalytic converter downstream oxygen sensor, electrical fault: circuit short to battery (+)
3: 130304 VANOS (Variable camshaft timing) exhaust: control fault, camshaft stuck
number 1 turbo issue maybe from the damage of over heated engine would point me to checking oil pressure when also when hot if will run ,
2 downstream 02 sensor might be cooked melted within and short circuit to positive, could also be a ecu fault,
3 also oil pressure first check on list then the oil control rings within the first cam journal or maybe engine got so hot it hurt the vanos sprockets,, i just done a citreon with same prince engine was cooked so hard it dropped the valve seats out the heat, that needed new cat both 02 sensors map sensor thermostat housing and both vanos sprocket all got hurt be the heat and thats was a lucky one
 

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then number 2 looks to be the fault and the rest could very well be the outcomes of that fault
2: 12A701 Catalytic converter downstream oxygen sensor, electrical fault: circuit short to battery (+)
the 3-4 minutes bit is the clue so when a car starts from cold its on a preset cold start map,,, after 3-4 minutes enough heat is within the cat for the sensors and cat to be switch via ecu to closed circuit running ie the 02 sensors take over the fuelling of the car,, if the cat is damaged this will have a bad effect same as if 02 sensors have bean damaged by engine failures like over heated ie cat and 02 sensors have a very brittle running parameter heat range,, when car gets over heated or oil is added to it or even antifreeze water damage can destroy them,, on a perfectly running car 02 and cat makers give a life span of 60,000-120.000 miles ie motorway miles and should be replaced as a complete system,, ie running shagged sensors on new cat is wrong and same the other way around,, those engines eat oil by design this adds to it then if get over heated they have no chance,, trouble is if dont replace all of it in one go chances are it will never run right,,
this all said and dont want to spend out try a sensor
 

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Thanks Mike. Let me start from the Cat with sensors and see how it goes further with the rest of DTCs.
Got another BMW F31 with N20 engine. 2.0 petrol. Changed Cylinder block and timing Chain kit. Kept all the sensors from the old Block. Reset all adatations. There is n DTCs but still the car doesn't start. It does crank and fuel supply from the injectors and spark on the Spark plugs ok. can you plz advice. thanks

then number 2 looks to be the fault and the rest could very well be the outcomes of that fault
2: 12A701 Catalytic converter downstream oxygen sensor, electrical fault: circuit short to battery (+)
the 3-4 minutes bit is the clue so when a car starts from cold its on a preset cold start map,,, after 3-4 minutes enough heat is within the cat for the sensors and cat to be switch via ecu to closed circuit running ie the 02 sensors take over the fuelling of the car,, if the cat is damaged this will have a bad effect same as if 02 sensors have bean damaged by engine failures like over heated ie cat and 02 sensors have a very brittle running parameter heat range,, when car gets over heated or oil is added to it or even antifreeze water damage can destroy them,, on a perfectly running car 02 and cat makers give a life span of 60,000-120.000 miles ie motorway miles and should be replaced as a complete system,, ie running shagged sensors on new cat is wrong and same the other way around,, those engines eat oil by design this adds to it then if get over heated they have no chance,, trouble is if dont replace all of it in one go chances are it will never run right,,
this all said and dont want to spend out try a sensor
then number 2 looks to be the fault and the rest could very well be the outcomes of that fault
2: 12A701 Catalytic converter downstream oxygen sensor, electrical fault: circuit short to battery (+)
the 3-4 minutes bit is the clue so when a car starts from cold its on a preset cold start map,,, after 3-4 minutes enough heat is within the cat for the sensors and cat to be switch via ecu to closed circuit running ie the 02 sensors take over the fuelling of the car,, if the cat is damaged this will have a bad effect same as if 02 sensors have bean damaged by engine failures like over heated ie cat and 02 sensors have a very brittle running parameter heat range,, when car gets over heated or oil is added to it or even antifreeze water damage can destroy them,, on a perfectly running car 02 and cat makers give a life span of 60,000-120.000 miles ie motorway miles and should be replaced as a complete system,, ie running shagged sensors on new cat is wrong and same the other way around,, those engines eat oil by design this adds to it then if get over heated they have no chance,, trouble is if dont replace all of it in one go chances are it will never run right,,
this all said and dont want to spend out try a sensor
 

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you say fuel is there ok and spark is there ok then its got to have a mechanical issue you would think,, have you try'd cranking engine with injector rail with injectors pulled away from head and as crank it see what fuel patterns you get if any, very very common bmw issue with no starts is cas unit,, also what are scanning it with need to know it will pick up dealer only codes as many do not,
 

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Hi Mike,
If the fuel spray pattern from Injectors are not the same or all are different then should I change All or the bad injectors 2ndly if the Cas unit is defective then still there would be fuel and spark supply? Or it would cut them off?
you say fuel is there ok and spark is there ok then its got to have a mechanical issue you would think,, have you try'd cranking engine with injector rail with injectors pulled away from head and as crank it see what fuel patterns you get if any, very very common bmw issue with no starts is cas unit,, also what are scanning it with need to know it will pick up dealer only codes as many do not,
 

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cas units when fail tend to shut t all off, have you done a diagnostic scan if so what did you use, all injectors should spray same, also would check the fuel line pressure from tank should have somewhere around 5bar or some diagnostics use mpa that would be 5000mpa, also would back through all the parts you have changed over some will be coded and will need bmw software to recode them to that car,, its bmw's way of trying to prevent anyone working on their cars outside one of their outlets
 

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To the people who are joining hoping to purchase a second gen mini with a petrol engine you will benefit from this information.

The n12-n18 engines were a joint venture between BMW & PSA it replaced the Tritec engine in 2008.

It was first used in the 2nd gen minis 2006-2013 and the convertible from 2008-2013.

Info about the engine courtesy of wikipedia


Prince is the codename for a family of automobile straight-4 engines developed by PSA Peugeot Citroën and used by BMW. It is a compact engine family of 1.4–1.6 L in displacement and includes most modern features including gasoline direct injection, turbocharging, BMW VANOS and variable valve timing.

The BMW variants of the Prince engine are known as the N13 / N16 and N18. It replaced the Tritec engine family in the Mini and was first introduced in 2006 for MINI. Later in 2011 also for BMW models F20 116i and 118i. This was the first longitudinal engine mount option for Prince engine.

PSA has started to use the Prince family in 2006 to replace their TU family — the Peugeot 207 being the first car to receive it.

The engine's components are produced by PSA at their Douvrin, France, facility, with MINI and BMW engine assembly at Hams Hall in Warwickshire, UK.[citation needed] The co-operation was announced on 23 July 2002 with the first engines produced in 2006. The Prince engine project is not related to the Prince Motor Company.

In late 2006, an extension of the cooperation between the two groups was announced,[1] promising new four-cylinder engines, without further details.

On 29 September 2010, it was announced by BMW that the 1.6Turbo version of the Prince engine would be supplied from 2012 to Saab for use in forthcoming models, primarily the 9-3. However with the closure of SAAB supply never started.

At the Geneva Auto Show 2011, Saab unveiled their latest concept vehicle Saab PhoeniX with BMW Prince Engine 1.6T 200 hp

On 25 June 2014 1.6-litre turbo Prince engine won its eighth consecutive International Engine of the Year Award in the 1.4 to 1.8-litre category. In 2014 the Prince engine beat, among others, the new BMW B38 engine which is replacing the Prince engine in the Mini and BMW lineups.



Design[edit]
The Prince family shares its basic block dimensions with the previous PSA TU engine family. Engineering design was directed by PSA with some support provided by BMW, including their Valvetronic variable valve lift system on the intake side. Other features include on-demand oil and water pumps. Gasoline direct injection with a twin-scroll turbocharger will be used on the higher power versions.[7][8]

All Prince engines will share 84 mm (3.3 in) cylinder spacing and a 77 mm (3 in) bore. The engine features a two-piece "bedplate" aluminum crankcase for extra stiffness.

1.4 litre EP3/EP3C (PSA)[edit]
The 1.4 L PSA EP3 and EP3C[9] is the smallest member of the Prince family with a stroke measuring 75 mm (2.953 in) and total capacity of 1397 cc. Depending on application, power output varies from 90 to 95 PS (66 to 70 kW; 89 to 94 bhp) while torque varies from 136 to 140 N·m (100 to 103 lbf·ft).

Applications:

2005-2006 Peugeot 307
2005–present Peugeot 207
2007–2010 Mini One
2007–present Peugeot 308
2009–present Citroën C3
2009–present Citroën C3 Picasso
2012–present Peugeot 208
1.6 litre EP6/EP6C naturally aspirated (PSA)[edit]
The 1.6 L engine is used in the second-generation MINI and various Peugeot 207 models. It has an 85.8 mm (3.4 in) stroke for a total of 1598 cc of displacement.

The naturally aspirated variant (EP6, EP6C[9]) has conventional fuel injection and lost-foam cast cylinder heads. Its 11:1 compression ratio creates an output of 120 PS (118 hp/88 kW) at 6000 rpm with a redline of 6500 rpm. Torque is 118 lb-ft (160 N·m) at 4250 rpm.[10]

Applications:

2007–present Peugeot 207 Sport
2007–2010 MINI Cooper
2011–present Mini One
2012–present Peugeot 208
2013–2015 Peugeot 2008
2007–present Peugeot 308
2010–present Peugeot 3008
2011–present Peugeot 508
2008–present Citroën C4
2009–present Citroën DS3
2009–present Citroën DS4
2009–present Citroën C3
2009–present Citroën C3 Picasso
1.6 litre turbocharged (PSA)[edit]
The turbocharged 1.6 L unit adds gasoline direct injection and has special low-pressure die-cast heads. It has an 85.8 mm (3.4 in) stroke for a total of 1598 cc of displacement.



Unfortunately it has its fair share of issues :serious:

1) timing chain guide rails are a very common failure point on these engines, a heavy knocking noise is the only warning your going to get.

2) Carbon coking is another common issue it can be rectified by walnut blasting the valves https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiE3v2zrKrTAhWMLMAKHVhRCv0QFghcMAE&url=http://www.dukesparkautomotive.co.uk/walnut-shell-blasting/&usg=AFQjCNHuSUdIBYlZKI4ZJEPm4qg42uWMyA

3) Vanos solenoid issues can play up & leak.

4) These engines require a good quality synthetic oil 5w30 recommended. Its a good idea to change it regularly to prevent excess wear on the vanos & valvetrain.

5) They also like to drink oil!! make sure its checked regularly to prevent catastrophe!!

6) With cars over 100k its not uncommon for oil pumps to fail, i would recommend its changed as precautionary maintenance to prevent any nasty surprises!


7) Coil packs can play up, this causes rough running & misfires + fault codes :big_grin:


Hope this helps someone lol

P:s to avoid these issues get an r50 or r53 :😉:
Hi there, I’ve got a 2008 mini one in need of a replacement engine, it’s the 1.4 n12 that is currently in it however I want to put a bigger engine in it, do you have any info if the Cooper 1.6 engine will transfer into the One? Or any other engines that’d fit it?
Many thanks
Henry
 

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H
the coking up the valves can be cured with a additive spray sprayed straight in to air inlet air filter removed this link below,

Sea Foam | Makers of Sea Foam Motor Treatment & Other Engine Products

timing chains are really bad have seen a high number or turbo car with under 50.000 miles with snapped or tension-er failure leading to chain failure,, ( these engines car be repaired after chain failure most of the time) i have done hundreds of them.,

the vanos sprockets must be replaced when changing timing chain as complete kit, the cheap locking tools on ebay i have found to be 3-5 degrees out retarded on the timing. laser tools do a good kit. also the oil operated solenoid valves that control the vvt have filter gauze's on them these get bits of carbon blocking them, not reving correctly first place to check remove and clean..

bmw say these engines are within spec 1 litre to 1.8 litre of engine oil used for 300 miles,, joys of low resistance pistons and bores.

oil pump, seen these fail in two ways, one is random low oil pressure then full oil pressure, carbon gets in to oil pressure release valve on the pump sealed unit,, also if car has snapped its timing chain bits get locked in it,, always remove oil pump and strip it clean it spotless after t chain failure, also the oil pump is driven by a small chain off crankshaft this chain has a habit of snapping after 100k or so.. always replace with sprockets,
i have seen a lot of cars with new coil packs new plugs as owner thought the misfire and misfire on bank 1 or and bank 2 fault codes were coil packs or plug issues when reality was timing chain was stretched and the engine was misfiring due to the over lap on valve timing way way out, right on the verge of snapping the chain when these fault codes appear.
all these issues are not just with mini and prince engines,, i see a lot of bmw petrol engines with all the above faults,, i also see vw audi seat petrol engines with timing chains with same issues,, the key is treat timing chain as you would a timing belt and changed it every 50 60 k and you should be ok.. i use febi bilsteen or FAI branded chain kits as have found then to be a bit as good if not better than the om ones
i Mike. I know that this a mini forum so please excuse the fact I have a Citroen. Also I know pretty much nothing about cars. I have been researching why my 29,000 miles on the clock C3 has developed timing issues, possibly due to the timing chain. I believe it to be one of these , award winning!, Prince engines. I have been told that replacement is about £1000. You seem to know and have had vast experience of this subject. I dont suppose you are in the Midlands or know of anyone with your experience that is?? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Would you be able to say if its even worth getting it done? I’m fuming as I cant really afford it and definitely can’t afford another car at the present. Many thanks. Elaine.
 

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i Mike. I know that this a mini forum so please excuse the fact I have a Citroen. Also I know pretty much nothing about cars. I have been researching why my 29,000 miles on the clock C3 has developed timing issues, possibly due to the timing chain. I believe it to be one of these , award winning!, Prince engines. I have been told that replacement is about £1000. You seem to know and have had vast experience of this subject. I dont suppose you are in the Midlands or know of anyone with your experience that is?? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Would you be able to say if its even worth getting it done? I’m fuming as I cant really afford it and definitely can’t afford another car at the present. Many thanks. Elaine.
yes same engine as Citroen as mini, i dont anyone in midlands i'm in cornwall so far away. yep main dealers are around £1000 to do full chain kit i know, what year is your car and is it a thp or just a vti non turbo engine
 

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yes same engine as Citroen as mini, i dont anyone in midlands i'm in cornwall so far away. yep main dealers are around £1000 to do full chain kit i know, what year is your car and is it a thp or just a vti non turbo engine
Hi Thanks for replying, lovely part of the country you live in, much nicer than the Midlands. It’s a 2011 1.4 vti VTR EGS according to the service log. It’s an automatic.
 

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Hi Thanks for replying, lovely part of the country you live in, much nicer than the Midlands. It’s a 2011 1.4 vti VTR EGS according to the service log. It’s an automatic.
think if i were you would spares repairs it on ebay or gumtree , as when add its a EGS gearbox ie its a France having a go at a DSG gear box , ie had a clutch with a gear change pack ecu controlled and they go wrong a lot , i would always fear sorting the chain then to have gearbox issues at some point that will make the chain job look cheap,
 

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think if i were you would spares repairs it on ebay or gumtree , as when add its a EGS gearbox ie its a France having a go at a DSG gear box , ie had a clutch with a gear change pack ecu controlled and they go wrong a lot , i would always fear sorting the chain then to have gearbox issues at some point that will make the chain job look cheap,
Thank you. I have had a couple of little issues with it not going into gear, particularly reverse so I agree its time to let it go. Bloody annoying, always happens when I have had new tyres put on a car lol. Last C3 did it a week after and it was the ECU but was able to part ex it for this car. If my brother can get the engine warning light to stay off I might have to try the same. Thanks again for your help.
 

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i worked for psa garage years a go and deffo wont own one these days, same as wont own a VAG DSG car either as they also have some pretty big weaknesses that are big bucks
 

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Thank you. I have had a couple of little issues with it not going into gear, particularly reverse so I agree its time to let it go. Bloody annoying, always happens when I have had new tyres put on a car lol. Last C3 did it a week after and it was the ECU but was able to part ex it for this car. If my brother can get the engine warning light to stay off I might have to try the same. Thanks again for your help.
Hi Mike, thanks again for your help. My brother came over, fitted a little diagnostic box, I know I’m a woman lol, it came up with just 1 fault. Camshaft Position Sensor A. He also said that there’s no “rattle” from my engine suggesting the timing chain. Phew, big relief. So I’m going to change the garage I use. Going to ask the Citroen garage to double check and get them to fit one. Hoping that solves all my issues, well car ones at any rate. Thanks again.
 
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