[minimcK]

Hi, just bought a Mini Cooper D, 2011, 126k miles. I'm looking for advice on avoiding DPF issues.

The car had a replacement filter at 90k, and runs very well. I'd like to keep it that way. Main driving will be to and from our nearest town on the motorway, but only a 20 minute run each way. How frequently will it need a longer run than that? Every 200 miles? 400 miles?

I am adding the Wynn DPF additive to every third tank of fuel, and (mostly) using ultra diesel.

Thanks, for your help

 

[mike1967]

you cannot avoid dpf problems as they are not really problems but just the way it works, really want to get away from the problems have it deleted, failing that its just a when not a if, on a high mileage engine and yours being n47 last thing you need is oil to get thick with carbon or thin with un burnt diesel blown past the rings by failed regens, 8k oil changes with a oil flush i use and swear by seafoam stick a can in oil 10 miles before changing it it will clean out all the crud, ford and volvo and psa on the 1.6hdi engines all list service data at 75.000 miles ie change the filter as part of service plan,, i can tell you so many horror stories on vauxhall and vag stuff with dpf filters and build up of carbon clean oil is a big one,, i have a few cars that come back for services after having dpf deleted and the oil after 15k is still very clean compared to when had the dpf in still, transforms them totally,

 

[minimcK]

Not sure what you mean by deleted there Mike. If you mean removed, that is of course illegal.

I am looking for advice to keep the car running smoothly. I know that this means regular motorway runs of 30 - 40 minutes. However I'm keen to understand what "regular" means in this context. Any advice there please?

 

[mike1967]

or course its a mot failure ie visual test,
so when we get a car in with dpf blocked at say 40.000 miles been used in town all its life never really gets to run around 3000 revs for a 45 minutes time span at least to clear the dpf, we would force a regen on that car all car makers except mini allow the software to force a regen on the spot where the engine is reved at 3400 revs for 45 minutes and the ecu fuels it to force the exhaust dpf filter etc to around 650 degrees or more and create a furnace effect in the filter, this cause massive heat and pressure within the exhaust and the turbo even in side the engine etc. mini do it completely differently ie the software will force a reg ti the car the next time its driven on the road,,,trouble is it still takes 45 minutes of over 3000 revs or more to do the process, you try driving any car at those revs all the time on the road unless its started at a motorway maybe, then add a engine that 125,000 miles is already at a point of end of life from worn parts and things break with all this pressure see it all the time with dpf diesels and bad outcomes on all brands,, also every time a regen happens its leaves a tiny bit of brown fine sand in the filter this is what blocks them as its not a free through filter its a saturation filter to catch the particles,
diesels with dpf filter are happy on motorway revs at 2500 or above 20 miles each way ie get chance to get to hot temps so the system can deal with the soot, and then the reason why anyone buys a diesel is mpg and to gain the best low revs high torque is why most buy a diesel in first place,, ironically a dpf filter is only 100% when its new and by time 40k comes along its causing more pollution than what it is meant to stop from cars clogged up and cars driving around at higher revs trying to keep them clear, or the partially blocked ones that cause fuelling and more pollution from not working correctly,, euro 5 diesels have got it more right with addblue additive, but euro 4 and 5 have always been a pain to live with,

 

[minimcK]

Thanks Mike.

From what you've said I am understanding that:

Minis will start a regen cycle every time the engine gets hot enough (ie motorway driving)
Regen cycle takes 45 minutes at > 3500 revs

Is that right?

 

[mike1967]

Thanks Mike.

From what you've said I am understanding that:

Minis will start a regen cycle every time the engine gets hot enough (ie motorway driving)
Regen cycle takes 45 minutes at > 3500 revs

Is that right?

no not every time it gets to a temp, the way the system works is there is two pressure sensors ie on the mini its a dual sensor one for upstream of filter and the other part reads the downstream on dpf filter these feed back to the DDE ecu mev17.4 this then reads both sensors, so if filter were not there both sensors would read the same pressures this would cause limp mode and etc, on a brand new filter it would read a different pressures on the sensors and as filter blocks up the upstream sensor will increase to a preset point set to ecu, where at this point the ecu would try and force a regen and clear the pressures back again at this point is perfect world the car would be travelling for 45minutes at 3400 revs all the way,, but if revs drop off or car is switched off only a partial regen would happen and these will mount up as not all the filter would of got enough heat and pressure to fully clear its self thats the reality of the system,, dam stupid for the owner dam good idea for a repair garage or main dealer as problems dont tend to appear until car is out of warranty,, my theory has always been thats no accident but designed in to generate future sales or cars or repairs,, the big problem is turbo's are not really designed to be restricted and they fail for a past time due to over heat and over pressure caused by these systems and oil confrontations etc all add to it, turbo makers put a 80.000 to 120.000 miles life spans, hmmm lost count the amount of turbo failures i have seen where dpf was cause and a lot of people dont even know what the filter is, search diesel runaway on utube if want to see the after effects of turbo failure ie can stop the engine untill it eats all its own engine oil,, this destroys the engine totally, would never buy a car with turbo failure unless can know for sure never went in to runaway

 

[minimcK]

OK so back to the original question, on a day-to-day practical level, at what mileage interval will the regnen cycle be required. Roughly. 200 miles? 400 miles? Other?

 

[mike1967]

OK so back to the original question, on a day-to-day practical level, at what mileage interval will the regnen cycle be required. Roughly. 200 miles? 400 miles? Other?

thats all worked out by the cars ecu as all depends on those pressure sensors and controlled by the car as preset adaptations ie ecu learns form other sensors etc and adds it all together to work out when and how long to passive regen its self, the only bit the driver has control over is the how hard and long to drive it, longer the trip with higher revs will cause it to clear its self on a passive regen, a full regen will happen when heat and time and pressures are met, when regen happens the engine can knock more sound more diesel noises, my last gen 2 59 reg one would to 150 miles one day and not regen on other days 50 miles before notice the change, to first time it done it i thought something was wrong with it, as ecu adds more fuel so get bigger bang and more heat

 

[minimcK]

thats all worked out by the cars ecu as all depends on those pressure sensors and controlled by the car as preset adaptations ie ecu learns form other sensors etc and adds it all together to work out when and how long to passive regen its self, the only bit the driver has control over is the how hard and long to drive it, longer the trip with higher revs will cause it to clear its self on a passive regen, a full regen will happen when heat and time and pressures are met, when regen happens the engine can knock more sound more diesel noises, my last gen 2 59 reg one would to 150 miles one day and not regen on other days 50 miles before notice the change, to first time it done it i thought something was wrong with it, as ecu adds more fuel so get bigger bang and more heat

I appreciate it's not easy, I'm just looking for a practical rule of thumb

 

[mike1967]

I appreciate it's not easy, I'm just looking for a practical rule of thumb

many things change it, car with faulty injectors will block dpf faster than good injectors, car with faulty egr valves same thing,
faulty glow plugs or even old glow plugs will block them faster than not as glow plugs play a part on generating heat etc , and cold starts cause more soot, high mileage cars use more oil these will clog faster and never really clear as harder you drive them the more oil gets in to filter, starts stops short journeys under 40 minutes also do the same, a diesel is designed to run best at a set rev but when in a car thats not poss, over 2500 revs is what gives the filter best chance of staying well but then bang goes your mpg and also more wear on other stuff like timing chains, and the n47 has a weakness on the chain very common for slipped timing, yours is doing well at those miles if still on first chain, also when chain stretches as they do this also causes more filter clogging,
once a month a hours drives at over 3000 revs would clear and cause a passive regen, or always drive around over 2300revs on a engine where everything is as new might do it, or not bother about it until it clogs then have the filter cleaned by a professional cleaner company ie they do hgv filters as well and can clean them back to new state around £100 in the uk

 

[minimcK]

many things change it, car with faulty injectors will block dpf faster than good injectors, car with faulty egr valves same thing,
faulty glow plugs or even old glow plugs will block them faster than not as glow plugs play a part on generating heat etc , and cold starts cause more soot, high mileage cars use more oil these will clog faster and never really clear as harder you drive them the more oil gets in to filter, starts stops short journeys under 40 minutes also do the same, a diesel is designed to run best at a set rev but when in a car thats not poss, over 2500 revs is what gives the filter best chance of staying well but then bang goes your mpg and also more wear on other stuff like timing chains, and the n47 has a weakness on the chain very common for slipped timing, yours is doing well at those miles if still on first chain, also when chain stretches as they do this also causes more filter clogging,
once a month a hours drives at over 3000 revs would clear and cause a passive regen, or always drive around over 2300revs on a engine where everything is as new might do it, or not bother about it until it clogs then have the filter cleaned by a professional cleaner company ie they do hgv filters as well and can clean them back to new state around £100 in the uk

Thanks for your reply, really kind of you.

Timing chain and DFP both replaced at 90k. I've been advised elsewhere to drive it > 40 mins at >2500 revs every time I fill the tank.

 

[mike1967]

ha ha love it another n47 diesel with a 90k timing chain change, nice to be proved once again right they drop like fly's that bmw diesel, i always bought bmw diesels from 1996 to 2007 the pre 2007 were good the early 325tds 6 cylinder diesels were truly epic bets diesel around, after 2007 some brain dead designer decided moving the timing chain to rear of engine and making it lightweight in the name of emissions, i bought a 3 series 320dm 2007 brand new it never made it to 70.000 miles before it snapped the chain and destroyed the engine totally, and back then bmw were in denial there was a weakness blamed the servicing and how were driven etc until bbc watchdog program named and shamed them for it thousands of these cars all with same issues with low mileages,, and still bmw would not except any responsibility for pour design, they even tried a longer tensioner as they also did on petrol engines that also done same trick this only moved the when it would happen by maybe another 10k but the bi-product was it killed off the cat and 02 sensors and other damages,

 

[minimcK]

ha ha love it another n47 diesel with a 90k timing chain change, nice to be proved once again right they drop like fly's that bmw diesel, i always bought bmw diesels from 1996 to 2007 the pre 2007 were good the early 325tds 6 cylinder diesels were truly epic bets diesel around, after 2007 some brain dead designer decided moving the timing chain to rear of engine and making it lightweight in the name of emissions, i bought a 3 series 320dm 2007 brand new it never made it to 70.000 miles before it snapped the chain and destroyed the engine totally, and back then bmw were in denial there was a weakness blamed the servicing and how were driven etc until bbc watchdog program named and shamed them for it thousands of these cars all with same issues with low mileages,, and still bmw would not except any responsibility for pour design, they even tried a longer tensioner as they also did on petrol engines that also done same trick this only moved the when it would happen by maybe another 10k but the bi-product was it killed off the cat and 02 sensors and other damages,

Yup, thanks. Bit over my head that tbh

 

[minimcK]

I've been advised to use a fuel additive such as Wynn's Diesel Particulate Filter Cleaner. There's a notice on the fuel cap saying "No Additives" however. What say you?

 

[mike1967]

i've found cataclean dpf cleaner does have a effect on a cars fuelling and what comes out of exhaust, ie have had cars fail emissions and just added a can on 1/4 tank of diesel and a 20 minutes at 3000 revs to through emissions lower than the specs for that car as it makes the diesel burn hotter etc, that said when a dpf is full of the red dust residue from regens nothing will clear it, except a professional cleaning service like on trucks.

 

[Tommy2019]

OK so back to the original question, on a day-to-day practical level, at what mileage interval will the regnen cycle be required. Roughly. 200 miles? 400 miles? Other?

Just for your info I drive a Ford Fiesta diesel (1.6 litre PSA engine which I believe is used in the Mini Cooper D also but not sure) and I only use it for my commute to work which is a 20 minute trip each way on mostly b roads (50-60mph kind of speed). I've had it a year and thats all I've used it for and no DPF problems so far or regens. I don't use any additives, it drinks standard ESSO diesel with a premium tank full every 4th or 5th fill up.

Its got 98,000 miles on the clock and still has the original DPF.

Just though't I may alleviate some of your concerns regarding the dpf, when I got it I was the same and imagined myself having to drive up the motorway every few hundred miles for an hour doing a regen but like I said no probs so far. With your motorway 20 minute drive you should be fine. I think the problems are caused when people literally just use it for town/city driving and never get past 4th gear doing 10 min trips.

Happy Motoring

 

[mike1967]

Just for your info I drive a Ford Fiesta diesel (1.6 litre PSA engine which I believe is used in the Mini Cooper D also but not sure) and I only use it for my commute to work which is a 20 minute trip each way on mostly b roads (50-60mph kind of speed). I've had it a year and thats all I've used it for and no DPF problems so far or regens. I don't use any additives, it drinks standard ESSO diesel with a premium tank full every 4th or 5th fill up.

Its got 98,000 miles on the clock and still has the original DPF.

Just though't I may alleviate some of your concerns regarding the dpf, when I got it I was the same and imagined myself having to drive up the motorway every few hundred miles for an hour doing a regen but like I said no probs so far. With your motorway 20 minute drive you should be fine. I think the problems are caused when people literally just use it for town/city driving and never get past 4th gear doing 10 min trips.

Happy Motoring

its same engine i commonly if have a engine swap to do get them to find a low miles ford or Peugeot or Citroen 1,6hdi engine as a replacement from a like for like year with dpf filter, but ford on some models up to around 2009 when it became law to have one had some models that never had a dpf filter in first place, just done one like that and a non dpf engine works and runs fine in a dpf mini car after a fuel system and wiring harness and every sensor etc, as you say yours has done 98000 miles and you have never had a regen with it would make me think it might be either one that never had one or its been mapped out at some point, or at 75000 miles it was replaced as per fords service plan same as volvo do as they also use the same engine in c30 and v50, as they had a lot of engine failures due to build up of carbons in the engine systems as a partially blocked filter and i say it once again does a lot of damage over time, and when its to late its to late