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About a month ago i parked in a bus stop to run into my local newsagents for a newspaper, (wrong i know, but no traffic about.) i come out 40 seconds later, warden is typing a ticket and tells me its to late to stop. I then just drive away before he issued the ticket. The problem i now have is the council has now sent me a bill for £80 instead of £40 because i did not pay within 14 days. I could not have paid the original bill because i never got it by post or on the windscreen. I reallly dont want to lose £80 so easily, but suppose i have to pay the 40 but where do i stand. Cheers.
 

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spur said:
About a month ago i parked in a bus stop to run into my local newsagents for a newspaper, (wrong i know, but no traffic about.) i come out 40 seconds later, warden is typing a ticket and tells me its to late to stop. I then just drive away before he issued the ticket. The problem i now have is the council has now sent me a bill for £80 instead of £40 because i did not pay within 14 days. I could not have paid the original bill because i never got it by post or on the windscreen. I reallly dont want to lose £80 so easily, but suppose i have to pay the 40 but where do i stand. Cheers.
Hmm....tough one, but then as you say you know you shouldn't have been parked there!!

These traffic wardens/parking tickets are a law unto themselves as we all know!!!! :mad:
 

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If the warden didn't serve you (give you the ticket)

Or the vehicle (attach it to the screen)

then it's invalid. I would write back denying knowledge of any such offence. I'm sure you could get some advice from the CAB / www.pepipoo.com etc etc
 

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If the original ticket was not legally served - it has to be handed to you or placed on the car at the time of the offence - then it is not legally enforcable. If you drove off before the ticket was completed and it was not issued to you or your car, it cannot be enforced legally. Talk directly to the council issueing department, tell them the facts, and they should revoke it.

That you did wrong in the first place is irrelevant. There is a strict process in the law, it must be followed. Other people get away with murder because of process break down, its no different, you should not have to pay your fine.
 

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http://www.parkingticket.co.uk/em.html said:
If I return to my car whilst the ticket is being issued but drive off before it can be either handed to me or fixed to the vehicle am I still liable?

This depends on who it is issuing the ticket.

If it is a council parking attendant then, to be valid, the ticket must be either handed to the driver or fixed to the vehicle. If you subsequently get a Notice to Owner you should write to the issuing council, explaining the situation, and ask for it to be cancelled. If they will not cancel it then appeal. Although the adjudication services do not categorise types of appeal anecdotal evidence suggests that between a third and a half of all appeals are for this reason.

However, if you return to find a police officer or traffic warden in the process of issuing a ticket then, if you drive off, the ticket can be sent to you as they enforce under different legislation.

You mentioned it was a warden and therefore you cannot apeal.


EDIT:

However, if you want to be padantic all yellow lines (and double) must have a T-bar end and must not be broken, however i have seen hundreds were they have been broken (due to new crossings or retarmacing and thus are not legal and so you can apeal.

Dec
 

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wow.. i've never heard of this "invalid because it was not legally served." Is it the same in the US. I friend of mine drove away from a person writing a ticket the same and the ticket was then mailed to his house and he paid.

Although, if this is true, then how about speed cameras? Technically you are not "legally served," but they have proof. It seems to me that to them the witness of a policemen is just as valid as a camera.
 

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mataku said:
wow.. i've never heard of this "invalid because it was not legally served." Is it the same in the US. I friend of mine drove away from a person writing a ticket the same and the ticket was then mailed to his house and he paid.

Although, if this is true, then how about speed cameras? Technically you are not "legally served," but they have proof. It seems to me that to them the witness of a policemen is just as valid as a camera.

The difference here in the UK is that nearly all Parking enforcement is carried out by Private Companies as sub contracted work from the council department. They are not police, they are not public employees, and most of them are payed on a commision basis. therefore, they must adheer to stricct rules. Otherwise, they could simply make it all up....
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Dec said:
You mentioned it was a warden and therefore you cannot apeal.


Thank you all very much for your answers but varying replies. Dec what makes you say i cannot appeal because it was a traffic warden? ALSO, I WAS PARKED IN A BUS STOP.
 

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Mini in Maine
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Guess I'm just old fashioned...

spur said:
Dec said:
You mentioned it was a warden and therefore you cannot apeal.


Thank you all very much for your answers but varying replies. Dec what makes you say i cannot appeal because it was a traffic warden? ALSO, I WAS PARKED IN A BUS STOP.
buy why did you drive off without the ticket? Seems rather irresponsible twice. Seems to me if one can't obey even the simplist rules then one probably should just pay the piper.
 

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spur said:
Thank you all very much for your answers but varying replies. Dec what makes you say i cannot appeal because it was a traffic warden? ALSO, I WAS PARKED IN A BUS STOP.
I've jsut been researching itsince you mentioned it. Traffic wardens have differnt legislation as i quoted before. If it is sub contracted companies then they must hand it to you as they could make it up, however police and traffic wardens considered more trust worthy i assume. And therefore can send it to you by post.

Im no lawer just googling :)

and parking in a bus stop is more inconvinient IMO but if u want to apeal go for it, let us know how it goes, if it was a traffic warden and not a some other company i dont think you have a leg to stand on, sorry...

Dec
 

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fred3 said:
buy why did you drive off without the ticket? Seems rather irresponsible twice. Seems to me if one can't obey even the simplist rules then one probably should just pay the piper.

You are getting old mate. Never ever break the speed limit? No? Sure? Whats more irrisponsible, parking for a minute in a bus stop or breaking the speed limit? Never taken your hands off the wheel, never answered a cell phone while driving, never taken a drink from a can of coke on the road? Never parked in a no parking area, even for a minute? Never lit a cigarette while driving, never changed a cd on the go, or taken your eyes off the road to re-tune the radio..... perhaps your a Saint?

The list can go on and on.... what spur did didn't hurt anyone, probably didn't even inconvenience anyone.... victimless crime is simply a means of raising tax to fund government red tape.... if they spent a 10th of the money putting Police on the streets instead of parking enforcement gestapo, there would be a lot less 'victims' of real crime in the UK.
 

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Tony*t3 said:
You are getting old mate. Never ever break the speed limit? No? Sure? Whats more irrisponsible, parking for a minute in a bus stop or breaking the speed limit? Never taken your hands off the wheel, never answered a cell phone while driving, never taken a drink from a can of coke on the road? Never parked in a no parking area, even for a minute? Never lit a cigarette while driving, never changed a cd on the go, or taken your eyes off the road to re-tune the radio..... perhaps your a Saint?

The list can go on and on.... what spur did didn't hurt anyone, probably didn't even inconvenience anyone.... victimless crime is simply a means of raising tax to fund government red tape.... if they spent a 10th of the money putting Police on the streets instead of parking enforcement gestapo, there would be a lot less 'victims' of real crime in the UK.
Couldn't agree less.
Anyone who drives is expected to know and obey the rules, if they don't and they get caught then they should just pay up. Especially in a case like this where there were no mitigating circumstances, it was just a matter of convenience.
 

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Driving off was the "right" thing to do. If the ticket had not been placed on the car, it is not valid. It was never served. There is no ticket.

Additionally, wardens are not allowed to touch - and hence serve any ticket - on a moving vehicle.

You may find your council a dead end, or they side with the warden. If this is the case, follow the appeals process all the way through. Make a note of any dates and times now before you forget, and make sure you declare the full facts clearly and succinctly in the appeals process.

I was served a ticket here in the Borough of Hounslow despite having a valid parking permit on the car. I had to go through the entire appeals process (some months) and took it all the way to the end where you sit down with an independent lawyer in town... and she had no problems reading my case blind, checking the law, and having the ticket thrown out straight away :)
 

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If ur caught i agree you shoudl pay up. Had a mate once who we were in london cruisng at about 4am noone arround stoped in what we thought was a free bay as there was a cover over the meter but we didnt relise it had a no parking sign on it, oops, paid up out fault annoying and we didnt inconveniance anyone but its the law...

Plus beej if u didnt read what i said parking wardnes and police can issure legal tickets through the post so any apeal will not win. ive seen it on tv programs too. there are certain apeals tehy do indeed work but jsut cos u drove off isnt the case.

Dec
 

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Cant help you / but can complain about traffic warden I had

I was visiting the UK with my wife and son, and we came out after doing our laundry. The traffic warden was writing a ticket for my rental car.

He said I did not put in the money. I had. And in front of my son, I told him so.

The meter said P 2:00 or something like that. I thought P ment Parking... and that the 2:00 would count down, but never even looked... (It never did count down it turns out)

Anyway after telling me I was lying, in front of my son, this :bad::bad::bad::bad: whole, gave me a ticket.

I had to pay it because it was a rental car, and tried to fight the ticket and / or get this person in trouble... but no such luck 8 months later I got a watered down apology and they kept the money.

Love the UK, HATE the impunity which SOME traffic wardens demonstrate. Things really dont change much over 100's of years in my book....

- MadHatter
 

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sorry to hear that Madhatter, next time though you know what to do.

If he's still writing, just jump in the car and drive off, don't even speak / look at him.
 

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Mike Clarke said:
Couldn't agree less.
Anyone who drives is expected to know and obey the rules, if they don't and they get caught then they should just pay up. Especially in a case like this where there were no mitigating circumstances, it was just a matter of convenience.
You contradict yourself mate. 'Anyone who drives is expected to know and obey the rules'.... this applies exactly here. If the ticket has not been properly issued, the law and the rules say that you can drive away. Most traffic enforcement officials in London now are not real traffic wardens, they are employees of private subcontracted outside agencies.

So do you NEVER ever exceed the speed limit in your car, not even on the motorway? Do you never ever, even inadvertantly, break the law or the rules? If you do, do you send money to the local enforcement agency with a covering note saying what you did?

Perhaps you never ever break the law. Or then again perhaps you do. Where does that leave your moral stance?
 

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You just drove off? :eek:

Drive away from an accident too, would you? :rolleyes:

The warden told you it was already in the system, what did you expect to happen?
 

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I'm really confused by this thread :confused:

Firstly agree totally with Tony and Beej - I thought everyone knew that the first thing you should do if you see a warden or parking enforcement official ( :rolleyes: ) writing a ticket is to get in the car ASAP and get the hell out of there.

I just had a chat with my sister (Kent Police Officer) and she has said that even with a traffic warden it must be 'Legally Served'. The issue is the definition of 'Legally Served', the reason there is a grey area with Traffic Wardens is that they are deemed as being reliable so if they say it's served the council believes them, even if it 'potentially' has not been. Also to serve the notice it can be in contact with any part of the car - not just the windscreen or window - hence the ambiguity.

Now if it's a Copper issuing a ticket and you drive off you can expect a jolly good telling off (and some lovely bracelets ;) ).
 
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