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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

after browsing for the last 2 years I've decided to join.

I've got a question about my car which I've owned for coming up 3yrs...

I knew the Cooper S was pretty dire on fuel, however mine seems to be rather poor compared to others, always was & still is.

On average i would get an absolute max of 275miles to a tank, this would increase to 300 on a run (these figures are normally less by 20-10miles), this is travelling at the national speed limits where indicated & doesn't include any major acceleration etc... To achieve 275 which included my daily commute to work 40miles i wouldn't rev the car any higher than 2000rpm except in 6th gear when travelling at a max of 70mph....

I then decided to get the engine re-map & chose a company who shall remain nameless for the timebeing. This made the fuel consumption even worse...the 275 turned into 255 & 300 into 275 :confused: . I specifically got a fuel economy map as well rather than a performance one.

Finally went back to them & had the car put back to normal. They reckoned that it wasn't their software that was at fault & suggested that it was the car.

One thing they mentioned was that the fuel tank could have been contaminated at some point & that replacing the fuel filter might solve the problem. If it wasn't that, then there is a sensor in the exhaust that may be contaminated or faulty, they mentioned a few other technical things beyond my understanding of cars...

Is what they are telling me plausible? & does anyone have any suggestions on what to do.
 

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I doubt it would be the fuel filter, but it is a service item and should be replaced periodically (inspection 2 time I'd guess)

It could be the lamda sensor in the exhaust - I had a 306 GTI-6 once that over time got worse and worse on fuel and was diagnosed with a failed lamda. It had no other symptoms but replacing it fixed the fuel problem. It was picked up at MoT time as the car failed emissions, so a pretty easy thing to diagnose and the "nameless specialist" are pretty poor if they can't tell you for sure if that's the issue.

I think my MCS is like yours in that it's always been poor on fuel compared to the figures other people say they get. On the other hand the tuner I used (who don't have to remain nameless as I'm pleased with them - GTT) reckon mine is one of the quickest cars they have seen for the modifications it has, so I'm living with it. Interestingly they haven't remapped mine even up to the 230+ level it's at so it was clearly set up to deliver a lot more fuel than it would ever have needed as standard. Part of me would prefer it to have been remapped, but then I trust Roland when he says it doesn't need it and at least I can tell my insurance company in all honesty that it hasn't been remapped and the mods are only bolt-on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Cheers for your response Fen, to be fair to this company, they haven't actually looked at my car, they spoke to me over the phone....

I rang mini today & they said the fuel filter wasnt a service item???

Passed the mot's with flying colours regarding emmissions, so could it even be a failing lambda sensor?

Trouble is i paid quite a few £ for this re-map & they aren't giving me a refund as they refuse to believe it doesn't work. Could be a trading standards case to be honest as I've paid for goods which didn't deliver what they were supposed to & they've reset the car back to standard.

Afterall, couldn't anybody blame the car as being the problem rather than the map? They do insist that I'm the 1st person to ever complain since they started doing these & have had hundreds of happy customers....

The only flaw in my argument is that this company does have an excellent reputation, so that's why i haven't mentioned any names etc... until i get some sort of result on this.

Very frustrating to be honest, as i cant see mini being interested in my out of warranty 6yr old car either....

So, do i arrange for costly investigations into my problem & will they find anything??? or do i just write off the re-map cost & sell the car, its just too uneconomical to run to be honest, that & the high insurance & then the road tax increases for next year, its all a bit of a joke really, gutted :(
 

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Hmm. With my 306 I had spotted it needed to be filled up more frequently than it used to then it failed MoT on emissions which was the second part of the realisation.

I'm surprised that Mini say the fuel filter isn't a service item; it is with most cars as it can get debris in it over time and hence in the extreme clog up. I can't see how the fuel filter could cause excess fuel usage though as all it has the power to do is restrict flow of fuel to the injectors or allow debris into the injectors. In both cases the net result would be less fuel being used than is ideal, not more

It also seems logical that if the car were using more petrol than it needs to that would show up in emissions. I guess it could be high but not enough to fail the MoT, or it could be that the emissions are OK at idle (is that still the way it's measured on petrol cars for MoT?) but not so clever under load. The fuel can't simply be disappearing so if it isn't being burned then it must be evapourating/leaking.

I think you're doing the right thing in not naming the supplier publicly at this stage as you sound like you'd be happy just to claim a refund and move on to another way of tacking the issue. I'm pretty sure I know who we're talking about however as I think they are the only people to offer an economy map. It's pretty shoddy that they won't issue a refund and I think you'd have a case for a trading standards claim. Their solution clearly is a "one size fits all" one which hasn't worked on your car - so what though, you own your car and it hasn't worked for you and just because it worked for 50 other cars that you don't own doesn't change your situation. Did you pay on a credit card as you could dispute the transaction through them - that seems to work well even as a threat to the vendor in my experience.

The real solution would be to have the car run on a rolling road and a custom map created for it. A good RR operator will be able to tell you quickly if there is a fault with the car which you could then get fixed and if it all checks out OK then they could set up the fuelling to match your specific engine. The irony is if it's overfuelling now it would be much quicker as well as more economical if it had a good custom map. The trouble is you're probably looking at £500 or so for a custom mapping session. It might be cheaper to look for a fault elsewhere first, but then if you do that and there is nothing wrong then that money was lost and you still need the remap to sort out the fuelling.

I'm pretty sure mine is fine and it uses about as much fuel as yours does, but mine has been tuned to make use of the fuel with considerably increased performance.
 

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dyno-mite, might not....
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agreed fuel filter idea sounds tosh to me, if it cant pass you cant use it quicker :rolleyes:
any chance of being able to check air/fuel ratio with 3rd party ?
has your car any mods? have you checked/changed your air filter ?
need to look at my mpg as well....
just got 260 from a tank [270 bhp ;) ]
 

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CHEQUE IT OUT
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well mine must be really bad on fuel, i get around 230miles to a tank, with only small engine mods
15% pulley
bluefin
pipercross induction
iridum plugs
sports cat
cat back pipe.

certainly not 270bhp,

altough i do like to crank up that charger quite often:D
 

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Mince certainly does about 275 miles as I recall - I can't say I've paid attention since it got to NZ. Mine also shows about 31mpg on the computer (at best) over here, but used to come up at 29mpg tops in the UK, so maybe I get even more than 275 here. I filled it yesterday and have done about 6 miles since then so I'll check this tank.

Others say they get 340 to 360 miles from a tank and 34-38mpg on the computer which is why I always assumed mine was bad, but now it seems like it isn't the worst by a long way.
 

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I used to get no more than 260/270 per tank either (miles) Mine was slightly modded but I used to drive it like a fairy because I couldnt afford to drive it otherwise lol! Similar to yourself, 2500rpm being the absolute maximum rpm it would be revved to on a normal tank full still only got me 270 maximum miles to a tank
 

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I must be blessed. 400 miles on the last tank and averaging 36mpg on a standard 35 mile commute (60% motorway)

And no I'm not driving it like a coffin dodger...
 

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Firefly
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Well 310 is the most I have ever had in my S. My last one was poor and this one isn't a lot better mind you! I think on the whole I'm pretty happy getting 270 to a tank.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Blimey, all these replies :)

I have replaced the air filter earlier on in the year, no difference in consumption, i did change it after I'd had the re-map, could this have affected things? The old one was jet black :eek: .

The car has no other mods on it & I'm running 16's with runflats.

There does seem to be a very big variation in mpg amongst owners, some are much worse than mine, but most people seem to indicate that they are using the performance, whereas in general I'm not....

I think I'm going to have to write a letter to the company concerned as i feel that i shouldn't have to pay for tests etc... to try & prove that there is something wrong with the car, as there might not be. They do seem extremely reluctant to give me a refund though, citing that I've had the re-map for way too long.

They never advised me of any grace period for the re-map, & their website & the paperwork i received says absolutely nowt about it either. Infact I've had 2 different people giving me different information regarding that sticking point....

This has turned out to be a right old disaster.

To date I've driven approx 450 miles to their place taking up loads of hours in the process & the cost of the fuel. The remap was £400 & I've estimated that because the mpg has gone down this has cost me an extra £200 in fuel over what i was achieving in standard trim, so I'm going to be out of pocket big style....

The only benefit is an extra 12bhp which did make the car have a bit more midrange acceleration, but to be honest since its gone back to stock i don't even miss it!!!

I did pay by credit card so i guess i could contact them to complain. Not sure whether trading standards would be able to help me or not as i don't have any proof of what I've been saying whereas they could provide data & testimonials....

I'll probably write to them first before persuing the other means, i just wish they would end this hassle & give me a refund, i would at least be reasonably happy, I'm not actually persuing a claim of compensation even though it has cost me more money on the extra fuel I've been using...

What does everyone think?, has anyone had a similar type of experience.

On a side note, i did have a quick spin in one of their other cars (not a mini) & it was absolutely superb, made the mini feel about as quick as a normally aspirated diesel. The acceleration was supercar like. Again i wont mention any further details until I've gotten this saga resolved...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
How strange, including the trip to the place which incorporated about 100+ miles the car has now managed a record breaking 311 miles on a tank, before the low warning fuel light came on.

I contacted them to find out if they had uploaded the original software that came from the car or whether they had used someone else's?? They confirmed that it was the software that was on the car & not anyone else's.

They are still sticking to their theory that there is a duff sensor on the car.

Anyone had any experience of this phenomenon?

I noticed on the forum, that One Diesels had issues regarding software & some people had experienced curing issues by the dealer removing the software & putting it back on???

This is all very strange if you ask me?
 

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Turbo Schmurbo...
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12-20 Miles a day approx 10 in free flowing traffic 60mph + the rest sub 40 mph. I'm not a frugal driver.

12-20 Miles a day approx 10 in free flowing traffic 60mph + the rest sub 40 mph. I'm not a frugal driver.

Date - Litres - Gallons - Miles - MPG - V-Power - Total
04/06/2008 - 39.35 - 8.66 - 200.00 - 23.11 - £1.249 - £49.15
13/06/2008 - 38.68 - 8.51 - 195.00 - 22.92 - £1.249 - £48.31

Feel any better? ;)

Feel any better? ;)
 

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I reset the trip on my current tank when I filled it on Wednesday evening. Currently the computer is showing 29.1mpg but only one of the 8 fuel LEDs has gone out so far so still some way to go before it's empty and I refill it again.

I've sold a car before because it would only get me 23mpg at best and wasn't quick enough to justify it (a mildly modified Impreza RB5 and it would quickly drop to 16mpg when trying to have fun) and if my MCS was getting the same mpg I think I'd chop it in also as it isn't that much fun.

Over the years I have paid at least mild attention to the mpg I get from my cars (I used to drive 50,000 miles a year) and the only thing to get less than the 23mpg the Impreza did was the RS6, but at least it was a 4.2 V8 twin turbo putting out 500+bhp. Having said that I haven't seen a lot of correlation between performance / engine size / mpg. The Impreza was a 2 litre turbo producing about 260bhp yet it used a lot more fuel than my 2.5 litre turbo 944 producing 360bhp, and I know which of the two was faster!
 

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I drive around 32 miles per day to and from work ... 05 MCS I get an average 23 -24 MPG and always have. I find the best milage keeping the tach around 3k ... If I drive like an old man I keeping tach around 2k milage gets much worse. I have never seen 30mpg
 

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My 04 Cooper S gives 34.4mpg here, and dips to 34mpg when i get it a bit of stick. And it rarely on motorway, usually in rush hour traffic.

Have seen 12mpg on track day.

Thats with a jcw exhaust, grs intercooler, works airbox with ITG filter, but was getting that without airfilter.

The Mini's mpg readout is an inaccurate reading anyhow, my dads saab counts continually, where as the mini only counts while car is moving, so the saabs mpg drops at traffic lights etc.

Should keep the car below 3000rpm until its warmed up. Over revving at 3000rpm I think if just driving along at a steady speed.
 
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